Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Durge27, Jun 15, 2020.
Mace Windu needed to block that force lightning with two lightsabers.
Difficult to predict but Order 66 was created to take care of all and I'm sure he had a plan A, B, C and even more. However, he needed another apprentice to make it work so it's possible. Maybe if Anakin hadn't had that dream about Padmé (probably orchestrated by Palpatine anyway) but unlikely. The only aspect that could have stopped it is if Yoda had not been away and joined Mace. I don't think Palpatine would have lasted long against Mace and Yoda. Also, Yoda would never have tried to assassinate Palpatine.
Of course if Anakin hadn't fallen in love with Padmé then Luke and Leia would never have been born and nobody could have saved Vader and the galaxy. So when you think about it, Jar Jar is the big hero for ordering that clone army. Otherwise, Padmé and Anakin would have died in the arena and nobody would have been alive to stop Palpatine.
I think Palpatine was the kind of guy who had backup plans in case the main one goes wrong
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It was as easy as to have a hundred Clones protecting him.
Palpatine was awaiting Mace Windu alone just because he wanted to create a trap for Anakin.
Palpatine really didn’t need an apprentice to make order 66 work. He easily could of had the temple obliterated from orbit when O66 went live. Having Anakin be the one to lead it merely further cements his fall to the dark side, tests his allegiance/ demonstrates his loyalty to Palpy and it’s the more spiteful move.
The fate of the Jedi was largely sealed once the clone wars began. At that point they continued to exist because Palpatine allowed them to.
Well a humble clone trooper could have saved the Jedi from Palpatine.
In the battle over Coruscant, if a clone trooper had aimed a bit differently and destroyed the tower with Dooku, Palpatine, Obi-Wan and Anakin in it.
Boom, both Sith dead and this humble clone trooper would also now have brought Balance to the Force.
The seps have lost Dooku and Sidious, sure Griev was still there and the seps "leaders" but without those two to give orders, they would be lost and without direction.
The republic would have lost the head of the senate but they could still function and the Jedi might have to step in and help.
The war would not end instantly but the seps would be in the worse position and so a cease-fire might have been possible.
The wounds would almost certainly take a long time to heal but there would be no Empire.
Bye for now.
He wasn't invincible. I never understood why so many thought he was.
True. But the galaxy would be left with a corrupt Senate and an increasingly complacent Jedi Order to deal with.
I didn't mean he needed an apprentice for Order 66 but afterwards. And Palpatine was surely not naive enough to think Mace would come alone. That is why he arranged so that Yoda and Obi Wan were gone. Yoda for the duel and Obi Wan so he would not influence Anakin in his decision.
I understand, but Palpatine was never invincible to me. There had been times when his plans nearly faltered either when he underestimated someone or through no fault of his own. I just find it strange that so many tend to view him as invincible.
A lot of things could have been different and altered history.
Mace wanted to act against Palpatine as soon as he was rescued. If the Jedi had decided to listen to Mace then they could have arrested or killed Palpatine right away with Yoda and Obi Wan both being there to help him.
If the Jedi decided not to alienate Anakin by asking him to be a spy... If they had talked to him about EVERYTHING THEY KNEW before a council meeting and explained the situation.. Then maybe he would have willingly decided to help the jedi spy. But they told him nothing and then told him he was on the council making him think he was now a master and an actual council member but instead he wasnt a master and didnt even have a vote on the council. So he was only an observer. They did this in a very insulting way that broke Anakin's trust of the Jedi. If Anakin hadnt been treated so poorly he wouldnt have turned on them and Sidious would have no way to defeat the Jedi.
The Jedi made a tactical mistake as well. They sent yoda away on purpose to appear weak and force Sidious to make his move. Too bad it worked and too bad they weren't only weak in appearance. With Obi-Wan gone and Mace all by himself how could he hope to defeat Sidious and Vader? If Anankin hadn't been turned and would have helped Mace the jedi would have won. If they hadnt sent both Obi Wan and Yoda away, if only one of them was still there to assist Mace in taking out Sidious they would have succeeded.
Man I would love to see that universe. A frustrated Palpatine cons his way into becoming Chancellor only to be defeated by term limits without a war to justify his grab for power. Just straight up has to drop out and endorse a successor.
I don't believe Palpatine was invincible either and it was a 50-50 chance that Anakin would help him. However, he knew he would do anything for Padmé so maybe it was more than 50-50 but he took a risk there but had removed Yoda and Obi Wan so they were not there to help Mace and Anakin. If Anakin had stayed like Mace told him, he would have been defeated by Mace. It's as simple as that.
George confirmed that Palpatine wasn't faking the lightsaber duel.
Yes. Go back to the Blockade of Naboo. Before Palpatine was ever elected. And inform the Jedi Council that the Sith Master is Senator Palpatine from Naboo. Tell them that he masterminded the entire blockade to ensure his election as Chancellor.
The entire Jedi Council would go to arrest him, and together, they would be able to apprehend or kill him.
Arresting a Senator is far less controversial than arresting the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.
With Palpatine in chains or dead, Maul would be a very minor threat. Though Dooku might have been able to cause some dissent, perhaps even working with Maul to create some chaos in the underworld. But the Sith Grand Plan would end in failure with Palpatine eliminated.
I like to think of each trilogy ending episode as the episode's where Palpatine has to put all his chips in and show his cards.
In ROTJ Palpatine has to hope that Luke will destroy Vader and join him. Luke doesn't and Palpatine loses.
In ROTS Palpatine has to hope that Vader will destroy Windu and join him. Vader does and Palpatine wins.
In TROS Palpatine has to hope that Rey will sacrifice him so he can possess her body. She doesn't and Palpatine loses.
Sounds silly to say, but Satan can masquerade as an angel of light. I don't think the Jedi expected the Sith to use the Exar Kun strategy on purpose.
I do think there are some problems with ROTS insofar as that we seldom find some realistic questions asked. For example, Yoda doesn't seem shocked that Sidious is deformed when he returns to Coruscant, but one could chalk that up to Yoda's wisdom. I always believed that Palpatine was slowly being deformed by the dark side, but he got either cosmetic surgery or a spell to make himself appear more handsome in ROTS than in AOTC. I believe he used a Sith ritual to accomplish it. He became extremely deformed after his lightning hit him due to the spell backfiring. that's just my interpretation. Plus, Mace may not have been the most powerful Jedi, but he was 60% as powerful as Palpatine. His ability to deflect the lightning was his struggle, and that contributed to the deformation, I believe.
I believe Yoda, Mace, and many, many Jedi would have had to work together to defeat Palpatine. But they would have had to have interviewed Lorn Pavan, Darsha Assant, I5YQ, and many other people in order to fix the issue. The tragedy is that those witnesses were dead. That's the rub of it. A lot of people could have defeated Sidious. The quandary was that they were all spread out, manipulated, and divided by time and space during the duration of Plagueis and Sidious' machinations. Even Darth Maul did not know that Palpatine had a master until shortly before he died.
Sidious wouldn't send a powerful Force lightning at Windu if he was just pretending to lose there.
It was so powerful that Windu screaming in pain while deflecting it.
It actually blinded Anakin's vision, he couldn't even look at Palpatine because of the power of Palpatine's attack.
And Windu hardly deflect it, and Sidious's lightning actually hit some part of Windu's body,
Let's not forget, Yoda got disarmed when Palpatine shoot him with Force lightning. It could happen the same to Windu, and Windu could easily die in here.
But Windu still managed to deflect it right back at Palpatine and wounded him, and he was going to kill him if not for Anakin.
The thing is, in Star Wars universe, the Force users have their own moments where they get far more powerful than ever. It happened with Rey, Kanan, Obi-Wan before, and this was Windu's moment. Windu was simply more powerful in this fight due to circumstantial reasons. Sometimes the Force allows who wins and who loses the fights, just because Palpatine is very powerful, and more powerful than possibly everyone we've seen, that doesn't mean he isn't going to lose to anyone. Powerful Sith lords like Maul and Vader lost to inexperienced Jedi apprentices Kenobi and Luke Sykwalker for that reason as well, they were simply more powerful than their opponents, but the Force allowed Kenobi and Luke to win against the powerful Sith lords. Maul killed Qui-Gon who was more powerful than the Jedi apprentice Kenobi while Kenobi was also there to protect Qui-Gon, but then weaker Obi-Wan somehow defeated Maul with a cheap-shot / surprising move in the same fight. Palpatine killed the other Jedi, forced Windu to retreat, but then Windu somehow got stronger later, and then he managed to defeat Sidious. It happens. The similar things also happened with Kanan and Rey later.
Pretty much once Palpatine took charge, it would all depend on how Ani would react to the situations he finds himself in. So, in hindsight, if the Jedi hadn't tried to fit Ani into a pattern he wasn't really suited for, it would've been more difficult for Palpatine to use him as the central part of his plot against the Jedi.
Beyond that, if the Jedi weren't as closely allied with the Republic, they might've noticed many years earlier how corrupt the system had become and been in a better position to act on their own to put things right, but in such a way as to not make things worse. Once things got so bad that the people would readily accept a tyrant over democracy, Palpatine had pretty much won. All he needed to do was get rid of the Jedi, which the people were also willing to accept.
If the jedi had trusted Anakin.
TPM was the beginning of the end. The only time anyone could truly have stopped Palpatine is before the events of the Naboo blockade. Once Naboo was blockaded, Palpatine's rise to power was just a game of manipulation.
Why do you assume that Palpatine had orchestrated Anakin's dreams and visions about Padmé? What if he didn't and Anakin's dreams were basically a manifestation of his own fears and the Force?
Honestly we could go back further than that. If Qui Gon had chosen a different parts seller in Mos Espa, Anakin would've never been found-and at that point, if the Jedi hadn't been able to defeat Dooku then that would be it. Sith win.
Regarding someone killing Palpatine (like Mace), it's now entirely possible that wouldn't have even mattered cos Palpatine may have already had a clone ready for transferring his essence to on Exegol even then. Based on the age of Rey's father, it seems he was already experimenting with cloning himself around that time anyways. So although his death may have prevented the emergence of the Empire, there still would've been conflict-cos by that point there were already too many wheels turning in the building of the Imperial Fleet, as well as those who aspired to leading it. I imagine basically the clone wars would've likely continued for several more years. But then Palpatine would still return-only earlier than some 55 years later or so. So I actually feel things would've ultimately ended better WITH Anakin in the picture. As far as whether Anakin would've resisted turning to the Darkside? Hmmmm…that's a tougher one-I think ultimately he would've turned, as long as Palpatine was friends with him growing up. Keeping Palpatine away from Anakin would've really been the only way to keep him out of trouble IMO. Without that evil influence all those years, I feel Anakin would've been able to deal with the life events that came his way over the years-and he would've likely heeded the teachings of the Jedi order more closely.
What a mess of the galaxy Sidious (or perhaps the Sith in general) made!
He started to make that plan during the last years of the Empire, not before.
''But Sidious sensing the flickering light in his apprentice, had been ready for years.''
And still, even in Return of the Jedi, it was still ''too soon'',
''It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect, and the cloned body wasn't enough.''
Logically, Sidious couldn't do that during the Revenge of the Sith era, which takes place 23 years before Return of the Jedi.
They were also actually searching Exegol in Unknown Regions during the age of Empire (according to Aftermath series), so the Sith didn't even find the Exegol yet in PT era.
Maybe if the Jedi took QuiGon's report about what happened on Tatooine seriously....
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