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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Critics' reviews for Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Palpadious, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Yoda's scene was absolutely a joke, and the "philosophical moment" was the punchline. When the tree explodes in lightning it is a violent surprise, and Luke's horrified reaction leads to a feeling of schadenfreude. This is also known as physical comedy. Revealing the books to be safe and sound later doesn't make it less funny. You can call it meta-commentary or you can just call it commentary. You can call it a coy message or anything else. The context of the whole scene is so obvious on it's face that I don't see why it needs to be explained any further.

    I wrote this in another reply, so I'll say it again. I don't know what Johnson's motivations are and I'm not too worried about it. I'm trying to evaluate the film on its own merits. It was probably a mistake to use his name in my post, and I was lazily doing it as a substitute for identifying the authorial intent of The Last Jedi. Also, I'm certainly not trying to say that those who enjoy The Last Jedi are trying to put down other fans. The point of the post was to say that I felt many of TLJ's deliberate efforts at subversion failed, but were being given a pass by critics because they are inclined to support those elements even if some fans are not.

    And as to the Mass Effect 3 incident, I'll just say I remember it differently from you and I'm not interested in establishing an authoritative history on the topic.
     
  2. Darth_Voider

    Darth_Voider Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    Since you are making this statement, why don't you list almost every scene of TLJ in an extra-large post for us and tell us how they are variations of moments of the previous saga movies?

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  3. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  4. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2012
    What the bots are still at work - can't they give it a rest after 4 weeks [face_bleh][face_beatup]
     
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  5. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I don't think it's bots. I do think there is a significant section of fans who dislike this movie intensely, and I do think some within that are review bombing on that site. TBH, I hope it drops even further.
     
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  6. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    This isn't bots, not anymore. Some of the real fanatics might be still on it with the review bombing, but i doubt very many.

    Most people don't rush off to review it on RT except the faithful. Truth is, we have no real non-fan audience rating. Hell, i liked it a lot and i don't think i've even bothered to rate it.
     
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  7. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I think the review bombing happened to rinse it down so quickly. Anyway, I'm not denying that whatever went on there, a significant chunk of the fans are displeased. But you're right, I love the film and haven't rated it anywhere.
     
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  8. ByteSizeRick

    ByteSizeRick Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    In the immediate aftermath of the Rotten Tomatoes Score issue on the 15th and 16th, I was asked why I thought this was happening. I said the following:



    Expanding on that a bit, I wrote (see signature): "Critics in general are asked to see a lot of movies (obviously, it’s their job). Because of that, they tend to enjoy big screen blockbusters, known for their explosions and broad characterizations, less than the average moviegoer. When a major blockbuster goes off the beaten path like Last Jedi inarguably does, they are more likely to treat it positively and to perhaps look past some of its shortcomings. In other words, critics love a non-blockbuster blockbuster and generally always have."

    So, in other words, I don't think there needs to be any vast conspiracy of paid off press (or bot army) to get to the result we are now seeing today. Last Jedi is a divisive film, and in part it's built to be divisive. Critics are always going to prefer that, all things being equal, to "Transformers 7: Now They Have Dragons". And fans, particularly those motivated enough to fill out reviews that will never be seen on an Internet site that will only ever show them (generally) in the aggregate, will always take things more seriously on behalf of the "brand".

    I tend to think the movie was below average, but I can absolutely see how critics sitting down to "another Star Wars", were happy to come away with a different experience than they had steeled themselves for. And I can see why many fans reacted the opposite way.
     
  9. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Nerdrage will do that. Only a certain segment would take it to almost a month out (see the very next thing i type in this post).

    That's fine, its the weirdos lamenting that their lives are now destroyed that have me scratching my head. How the world is greyer, and they just can't be star wars fans anymore, and how sad they are that something so important to them has been utterly defiled... With these people i have to say toodle-oo. If someone is that obsessed, its best for them to get out there and find something that doesn't do so much damage to their psyche.

    And i have no issue with normal people who dislike a movie i happen to like. Disagreements about entertainment happen all the time. That's normal. My girlfriend and her daughter were ALL OVER those Twilight movies. I managed to still get sex. We live.
     
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  10. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Agreed on all points.
     
  11. superstardestroyer-1

    superstardestroyer-1 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    The audience score is what it is. If there are truly people that dislike this so intensely, then maybe some of the fanbase that's disliked everything Star Wars for years, if not decades, will finally just leave it behind.
     
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  12. Count Zero

    Count Zero Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2014
    There's a segment that has hated just about all Star Wars made since 1980. Move on, people.
     
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  13. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I hated it and also haven’t rated it anyway. Besides here. The review bombing is going both ways as I posted a few pages back.
     
  14. Darth_Voider

    Darth_Voider Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2015
    Why?


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  15. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016
    If you feel that there are issues with TLJ or the ST as a whole (as I do) you may hope that the backlash pushes Disney to stop and re-evaluate things.

    This is why I'm personally ok with seeing the RT audience score continuing to plummet.


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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  16. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
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  17. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    So I just checked the link. The nominations are quite specific.

    "The eighth installment in the Skywalker saga was honored with two BAFTA nominations, including Best Special Visual Effects and Best Sound. In both categories, The Last Jedi will be facing off against some tough competition, including Blade Runner 2049, The Shape Of Water, Dunkirk, and War For The Planet Of The Apes."​
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  18. nargso_calrissian

    nargso_calrissian Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Indeed, I derive a certain amount of satisfaction from the plummeting scores on RT/Metacritic/IMDB. I particularly like the falling score on IMDB, as apparently that site is more proof against bots/review bombers etc who are all apparently giving TLJ a lower score than it supposedly deserves. IMDB is currently 7.5, just under ROTS, having fallen from the mid 8s where it opened and in just close to a month since release. (Only TPM and AOTC are lower than TLJ, around the mid/upper 6 range, IIRC.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  19. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Metacritic is down there as well.
    I think the low RT is a better outcome than low box office. Disney have a better chance of correcting if the user ratings rattle them. If box office dies I think they are more likely to just walk away from the movies. I notice all the theme park stuff mostly uses OT imagery and I think they can thrive on that goodwill and I wonder if that might be a part of that marketing plan?
     
  20. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    I was half-joking. More to highlight how skewed it is. You have a-holes screengrabbing it and tweeting it RJ and co every day as they root for it to plunge. Nerdrage is so weird.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  21. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    I think TLJ, like TESB before it, will be viewed more warmly by fans as it ages (which I think it will do well) than it was upon release.
     
  22. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    myThe only fact that TLJs audience score is lower than some dumb blockbuster movies with no artistic values speaks volume. You can dislike the movie but objectively it's not a bad movie, so of course there's something going on here. Had the movie be the first SW movie made you certainly wouldnt see such a low score...

    ...so yes the film is divisive amongst people but it's so obvious that there's some severe nerdrage going on here. People who HATED the movie -most of the time because of lore/luke' characterisation/pro-lucas/pro-old EU, not really from a cinematographic point of view- feel the need to bomb down the movie. The simple truth is that most of the voters on RT are TLJ haters and the internet echo chamber is working full. I honestly think that if there was a more objective poll with random people who never vote for movies on the internet then the score would have been higher.
     
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  23. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I wonder if the BO wasn't so high if the RT, Metacritic and audience scores would be seen in a different light? Seems to me the support for the movie has increased from release night as to BO numbers improved.
     
  24. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    It makes me laugh/ bang my head against the table when people are saying that the themes and messages of the film - when pointed out by those who actually got them - aren't there and are just mental gymnastics. As if grasping subtext and symbolism and thematic writing is unheard of. "you shouldn't have to watch a film more than once to get all this!" "This stuff shouldn't have to be spelled out!" Tell that to Citizen Kane, or Interstellar, or any other film that doesn't spoon-feed you. Fans that were paying attention and critics that point these things out aren't pulling this stuff out of thin air. And the reason the "defenders" are all on the same page is that those elements are there (or subtext) in the film - intentionally put there by RJ.

    Now, by all means, no one has to like that he took those paths. If someone wants to say "I don't want a Luke that ever failed again after ROTJ" or "I don't want my heroes to have to learn the cost of failure, I want to see them being more traditionally heroic" fine , I get that. But enough with this "that's not in the film!" bs. It is in the film. That's why people are bringing it up, and theorising and reflecting on deeper meaning after the event is not proof of poor storytelling - it's indicative of deeper meaning existing in the first place - as per the intention of the filmmaker! Rant over (for now).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  25. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    @Satipo Is this the right thread you meant to post that into?