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Lit CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Jun 13, 2013.

  1. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Del Rey doesn't do anything except approve pitches for one-offs. The editors are involved in the story for the big series, which is likely why they have been bad. And DOTJ was derived from Dark Horse.
     
  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    As was Knight Errant, but in neither case were we guaranteed a book.

    I get that those cases conflict greatly with the kind of continuity vandalism charge that can be leveled at the likes of Apocalypse, but there's still a good amount of good material put out by DR.
     
  3. Darth_Xeres

    Darth_Xeres Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Oh, I acknowledge Del Rey has published some good novels, which is why I said "mostly mismanaged". But you're right, I'm probably more biased against Del Rey as a whole than I should be due to the direction of the post-NJO era and Troy Denning writing so many novels in that era.

    So what would be your ideal solution? Replacing the editors?
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, if I mention I bailed on LOTF at Betrayal, that likely explains quite a bit right? ;) All my DR buying for the last 8 years has been other era work.
     
  5. Darth_Xeres

    Darth_Xeres Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2010
    I wish I'd had your foresight. My wallet and even more so my enjoyment of the EU would be doing better nowadays.
     
  6. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    There's always fanfic, and a lot of it is pretty good.

    And on these boards there's no PWP
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You're far from alone in that respect DX!
     
  8. Darth_Xeres

    Darth_Xeres Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Actually, I find the very quality of many fanfic works depressing. When you find yourself thinking "The plot, characterization, and prose of this fanfic were all better and more logical than the professional fiction that was actually published," it's discouraging.
     
  9. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Then think of them as AU's, and just enjoy them, as good stories, after all the St means a major change in post rotj canon, and the next book after ROTJ may be the episode seven adaptation. and the new back story it will need.
     
  10. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Read Yodakenobis fan fics. They are immensely superior to the official EU. His timeline diverges after Traitor as I recall. And Anakin lives as well.
     
  11. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Nice spoilers for them. Yodakenobi also makes some decisions later in the timeline which people disagree with, as I recall.
     
  12. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Well, at this point they've salted the earth, so to speak, haven't they? Otherwise I'd say the obvious solution is to stop doing these large series with non sequitur names and one word book titles that may or may not describe something in the book and don't follow any sort of narrative structure and let other authors like Luceno, Stover, Zahn, Keyes, JJM, Kemp, and Stackpole work in the era with one-offs or duologies/trilogies and don't let it just be dominated by one or two authors. Problem is, Luceno and Stover seem to have written off the era, Stackpole seems to have had a falling out with someone, and I don't know why Keyes hasn't returned. I think Sacrifice burned Zahn's bridge too, but all this goes back to the earth being salted.
     
  13. LosDosMos

    LosDosMos Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2005
    To be fair, that's not hard.

    I'm pretty sure YK's stuff diverges after the Force Heretic trilogy. I don't know if any of it is readable at the moment, though, since the move to the new board has clipped a lot of the old posts.
     
  14. JStepp

    JStepp Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2011
    One spoiler and one of the main reasons I even started reading them was that Anakin is alive. That is a big selling point to some people.
     
  15. Darth_Xeres

    Darth_Xeres Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2010

    I think Del Rey stated that they were indeed heading in the direction of one-offs like Crucible and duologies/trilogies like Sword of the Jedi before the Episode VII announcement. But if the post-Endor EU is indeed made an alternate universe or outright non-canon by the ST, then Stover, Luceno and whatever other authors who might not have wanted to write post-Endor novels anymore might change their minds. That's one of my hopes for the ST era, anyway.

    I know. Which is depressing in and of itself.
     
  16. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Honestly, if Denning wanted to make Vestara a villain there were far better ways to do it: look at Fatal Alliance or The Old Republic itself, specifically the smuggler story. Eldon Ax served as a compelling villain that we at first sympathized with, who by the end outgrew and killed her Master. And in the smuggler story, Vaverone Zare only appeared for about five minutes, but was still more compelling (as in, you-want-to-kill-her) than Vestara in Apocalypse.
     
  17. jedimaster203

    jedimaster203 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 1999
    At one point, I might have included myself as part of a rabid fanbase. Not anymore. And don't mistake me, I'm not defending Denning. I think he's medicore.

    I also love Stover. He's king of my literary world in general. I wasn't arguing who was better, just that Denning can produce work that sells, so he gets more work.
     
  18. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Darth Plagueis sold better than Apocalypse, but you don't see Luceno getting more work than Denning. I really doubt it has anything to do with sales, but much more to do with turnaround. Or he's just developed a relationship with people at Del Rey so he gets right of first refusal.
     
  19. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Lucento being the "primary" writer would have been awesome.
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  20. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Well, as far as New Jedi Order goes, Luceno was the "primary" writer. It was much more decentralized than the later series, but he was the most heavily involved of the writers with plotting it out. And it shows.
     
  21. Darth Xalfrea

    Darth Xalfrea Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2013
    So on the Star Wars Books facebook page showcasing a book table at SDCC, I see a comment that says they'll throw their copies of Crucible at Troy Denning.

    Isn't that a little...I dunno, harsh? I mean you don't see people chucking their copies of Phantom Menace at George Lucas. Say what you will about Denning's writing, but you go too far if you start inflicting bodily harm on him.
     
    GrumpyGreg and kataja like this.
  22. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Jennifer Heddle tweeted that Crucible is #17 on the NYT bestseller list, and the Shakespeare's Star Wars is #10
     
  23. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    I'm sure people have similarly threatened bodily harm on George Lucas online. I doubt anyone is going to throw their book at Denning, nor should they.
     
  24. FatSmel

    FatSmel Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Why would I want to do that? Not sure how you concluded I was complaining. Or trying to silence "dissenting opinions".
    It's called offering advice.

    For future reference: jumping to weird conclusions makes you look ignorant

    btw, ^that was also offering advice. Not complaining. In case you missed it again.
     
    Chewbacca89 likes this.
  25. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2011
    I still am grappling with the decision to have Tahiri and Ben team up together, especially after she molested him in one of Denning's own novels. That's almost dismissing that horrible action as trivial, which is very disturbing.