Books A/V DARK DISCIPLE (Ventress/Vos novel) (spoilers)

Lucas resurrected him, not Filoni.

 

I think Dooku would easy defeat Maul

 

Am reading Dark Disciple now. There is a lot of filler though I noticed

 

yeah Dooku is a great duelist, he should have no trouble with Maul.

 

I agree and this is the one arc that should have been completed. The action was going to be off the charts. From the escape of Maul to the Trade Federation battling the Mandos to the Brother's getting involved and the big battle at the end with Sidious, Maul, Mother Talzin, Dooku and Grevious. This was the arc. This one and the Wookie arc that contained the Bad batch. For whatever reason the good ones we didn't get. These two would have been awesome.

 

What was the Wookie arc about, I've not heard that one ?

 

I don't think we know much about the actual plot of that one. The Bad Batch, including new recruit Echo, fight giant spider monsters in the one animatic clip. Yoda would've been involved in some way, along with Tarfull. There's more concept art here:

 

Never noticed the sketch of Vos duelling Maul before. Presumably that would have happened in between arcs of the Dark Disciple material. The two could still duel in The Bad Batch I guess.

 

I think some of that seems like it was used in the Jedi Fallen Order Kashykk scenes.

The whole Giant Wolf ride along was so ridiculous in Rebels, I'm glad it was dropped from TCW

 

It was actually meant to take place in the first or second episodes of Son of Dathomir, which is indeed between the two halves of Dark Disciple. It's unclear when the duel was cut, whether it was during the scripting phase, or the comic adaptation.

 

I didn't see the relationship of Obi-Wan and Tiplee as a romance at all. On Ord Mantell he just mourned a fallen Jedi sister. To me it was the same like when he was with Adi Gallia at Florrum and that wasn't a romance either.

 

I headcanon it to be non-romantic so that it doesn't bother me too much, and i see where you are coming from, but looking at it from the intent put into it, the way they talk to each other "i won't fail this mission, or you" and talking about Satine as if they were really close, the way he moruned her (not the fact that he did, but his reaction and concern over getting to her body over the Sith escaping) show to me that the intent from the writer was that Obi had feelings for her and vice versa, hence why it affected him so much, it's a tool they used to have her death be more impactful, i'm not saying that they were in an actual relationship, but that there was some sort of feelings between the two there (perhaps i shouldn't use the word "romance" that liberally), it's clear the intent was to make their relationship seem that way.

 

@Irredeemable Fanboy,
I really have to check out the English and the German version (I have both). Sometimes the German translater translates terribly wrong differently from the original.

So you think Obi-Wan is the Star Wars James Bond?

 

@Sudooku lol i know how you feel about translations, but i think all versions are generally the same in this case, the spanish version is word-for-word the original despite them making TERRIBLE mistakes sometimes (in cases like these i double-check so i don't get the wrong idea).

Well, let's see...

We got Siri Tachi, Satine, that one girl from the Gambit Duology and now Tiplee... 4 women that Obi-Wan has fell in love with.

This is why he guarded Anakin's secret with Padme, he would have been a hypocrite if he called him out for it (plus, Anakin guarded the secret with Satine, too).

 

This is classic Ahsoka overconfidence, she was no match for Maul in this fight even Filoni said that in ''Clone Wars Download'' interview, still she also fought Anakin on planet Mortis (when she wasn't even this good), and Anakin wasn't even easily beating her, she is just trying to insult Maul because Maul tried to kill her master Anakin. That was the reason she refused Maul's offer in the first place.

Even in the Rebels, Old Maul was stronger than Ahsoka, which is why Maul went with Ezra, while Kanan didn't want it.

If you guys read this novel, I don't know how you think that. Dooku loses to Quinlan Vos in this novel, and not just once he loses, he loses twice to Quinlan Vos, just because Vos used the dark side a little bit without even being a true Sith Lord, imagine what a true master of the dark side like Sith Lord Maul would do to Dooku. Dooku also previously lost to Maul's apprentice Savage Opress, Dooku got disarmed by Savage Opress in the Clone Wars Season 3, Dooku only survived that fight because Savage didn't know how to block Force lightning, Maul knows how to block Force lightning, in extended Sidious duel, Maul even blocks Sidious and even Force pushes Sidious. It's obvious that Dooku was never considered as a real potential Sith Lord until Maul dies in TPM, Dooku was around TPM and before, but Maul was the Sith, not Dooku, and then he was just a placeholder for Anakin until Anakin grows powerful enough to be a Sith, it makes no sense that Dooku is being stronger than Maul, when he was never considered as a Sith Lord before TPM until Maul dies. I can understand Vader, but Dooku? That makes no sense.

If you guys are thinking because of Obi-Wan match-ups, that's an entirely different thing, a lot of things involved in Obi-Wan match-ups when Maul fought Obi-Wan, a lot of plot armor and story related reasons stopped Maul from killing Obi-Wan after Qui-Gon, when Maul was clearly stronger than Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan just is extra focused and reaches his maximum potential against Maul everytime they fight, because Maul killed Obi-Wan's master Qui-Gon. While the plot demands that Dooku should beat Obi-Wan, and Anakin should beat Dooku, and then Obi-Wan should beat Anakin, all of these are because of plot. And still, Maul several times defeated even plot armor protected Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars (in the Clone Wars Season 4 and Season 5), not only he beats other characters.

 

Because I think the novel is bad and doesn't do Dooku justice.

So I don't care what it says.

 

Of course he wasn't, because he was trying not to hurt her, he was fighting defensively the entire fight, which is probably the only time ever we see Anakin fighting in such a way, because not hurting her was his highest priority, so I don't think that's a fair point in regards to Anakin. By the time of RotS Anakin was extremely skilled, and he would not restrain himself, so probably he could have taken Maul down.

 

I agree he was holding back, still, she was able to disarm Anakin in that fight, even if when Anakin was fighting defensively, that was impressive, plus Obi-Wan joined the fight later and she still held her own in 2 v 1.

 

She didn't disarm him, she hit him in the face, and he dropped his saber. And immediately after that he disarmed her with the same move Vader used to cut off Luke's hand in Empire. It wasn't even a fight, really, Anakin didn't even hit her once throughout the entire "fight," he was just blocking her attacks, same with Obi-Wan. Ahsoka was just attacking in her Dark Side madness, and they were just blocking it. So I wouldn't call that "holding her own." It was them trying not to hurt her under any circumstances, and figure out how to free her from the Son's control.

 

That's disarming someone. Anakin dropped his saber because she hit him.

Yup, which is why I didn't say she beat Anakin.

Anakin even used a Force push to stop her later, or at least to disarm her and capture her, but it didn't work so, I wouldn't say ''just blocking''.

 

Seeing as how she defeated and captured Maul, I guess she was a match for him

 

Plot armor aside. Maul considered that duel a training ritual. He had already defeated her a few times during the Siege of Mandalore but always sparred her life. First time was in the sewers. His captured was more a ruse than anything else since he was trying to convert Ahsoka . The entire Siege and its outcomes were carefully designed by him. Him escaping in a Gauntlet would've also been public intel, but if he escaped in the carnage of the destruction of the Mandalore on either the ground by the fall or by Star Destroyer getting destroyed, his whereabouts would've been more a mystery. He could've cut the metal beam or used the Force to throw her off but he chose not not. A fall would not of killed Maul, he was in no danger from dying. Sith and Jedi are trained to stop their falls. He stopped his fall on Naboo in the TCW prequel comic and later on Rebels. He was also pretending to be unconscious in the coffin-contraption as he spied on them and his surroundings. Ahsoka came very close to joining him, but her own temper, anger and misplaced loyalty for Anakin and the Jedi prevented that. By her not joining Maul, the galaxy became what it did and so many lives destroyed. In the end the chaos was her doing as Maul said.

In any case, Filoni had Ahsoka almost kill Vader with her pounce attack signature move, but Maul easily blocked it and deflected it whereas Vader almost lost his head if not for his helmet. Maul's fighting style and exceptional ability were well beyond Ahsoka's. On top of this, Ahsoka lost two lightsaber duels before she got back her lightsabers in Season 7 , one against Bariss and another against Grievous whom she actually fled from in fear and needed Hondo for the rescue.

Maul easily defeated Grievous in short time and had cut through his droid army single-handedly making short work of Magnaguards and Droidekas. Maul also outmaneuvered Dooku and Grievous, captured them and an entire droid army. Dark Side Quinlan/Enigma also defeated Grievous. Even Ventress also easily defeated Grievous on Dathomir in short time and they both had the same master, but she was more skilled and knew his routine. Only reason Grievous survived was cause he's usually surrounded by droids to command but more so cause died in ROTS. The fact was Grievous on TCW often beat up Obi Wan, but then Kenobi uses the Force and Grievous runs away. But in pure lightsaber fighting Obi Wan would have died something like 6 times during their duel encounters. Even their last encounter on TCW in the "Crystal Crisis", Grievous destroyed Kenobi but of course Kenobi cannot die. Even in ROTS despite an early advantage in the fight, Kenobi eventually almost gets killed by Grievous had it not been for him using the Force to get the blaster and for Lucas leaving Grievous' organs exposed,lol.


The more interesting thing right now, was why they chose to use Ventress' Dark Disciple's "redemption" lightsaber for Maul's second hilt. I often wonder if Ventress is Mauls biological sister. Could explain Talzin's actions to some degree and the kinda motherly love she showed her, Savage and especially for Maul. At least as close as possible for a Dark Sider to show affection for their offspring while someone like Sidious had none for his "son" or granddaughter.

 

You mean when Maul was toying with her after disarming her? Asking that he is giving one last chance and she should join him? Yeah Maul got himself captured, that's why later she couldn't stop even an unarmed Maul, he send her flying with a Force push before he escapes with her ship.

 

Hello there!

I have a question about a specific thing in that novel. Did Palps or Dooku declare/describe Ventress and Vos as sith?