Discussion in 'Literature' started by DarthDeviousTX, Jun 3, 2011.
Just wait till Lucas revises the scene so that Palpatine shoots first.
I thought the storyline was great. I never really bought all that "Chosen One" crap. It doesn't undermine ROTJ. The whole point of Jedi wasn't the Alliance's victory, it was Anakin's redemption, which is still valid even if Palpatine came back to life.
If Palpatine really wanted control over the galaxy (and was the disciple of Darth Plagueis) he would have a back up plan to ensure that his plot for galactic domination wouldn't be destroyed because his crippled former intern decides to pick him up and throw him down a shaft like a log. The thought of an "unkillable" person creates alot of tension.
Did we need Leland Chee to confirm that? That was in the comic.
Remember, Dark Empire was a Tom Veitch-K.J. Anderson project, in many ways a sequel to Tales of the Jedi. And the main theme of TotJ is "can a Jedi go over to the other side and defeat it from within?" Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma tried it and failed. They were warned that "countless Jedi have tried it, and they all failed." The whole point of DE was that Luke was the only Jedi to succeed in wielding the full power of the dark side and never succumb to it.
Oh, and Dark Empire, for me, is what is commonly termed "G-Canon," at least the general outline -- Palpatine is resurrected, Luke becomes his lieutenant to defeat him, Leia helps Luke come back from the brink of darkness. It was George Lucas's idea to bring back the Emperor, and it appears that it has fallen victim to his Great Purge, like the sequel trilogy. But no matter how many times he says, "I always intended it to be an hexalogy" or "Palpatine never came back from the dead," he knows -- as I do -- that he intended to make twelve films, then nine, then six, and none but he resurrected Palpatine. To Yezhovchina I say: Reabilitatsiya.
I liked DE 1 a lot. Less so DE 2 and 3. I enjoyed the novelty of the DE audio book.
I loved the Dark Empire Sourcebook though. So much back story and supplemental material. Probably my favorite sourcebook to come out of WEG or Wizards.
First of all, KJA was not involved in Dark Empire. Secondly, Dark Empire is the original. TOTJ is the prequel to Dark Empire. And KJA was involved in TOTJ, speifically Dark Lords of the Sith and later he just took the whole thing over and karked up the ending that Veitch had in mind.
Seconded. There is just no end to how great Dark Empire (the original) and the Dark Empire Sourcebook are. Truly gems of the Star Wars EU. There's no doubt as to why Dark Empire has enjoyed the overwhelming succes its had over the years -- it got "Star Wars" spot on. And the Sourcebook -- it's simply just pure joy to read through it. There was so much information in there to build on; great for the game, and great for the EU.
DEII suffered from the lack of Lightsider. It was a sequel, and it shows. EE was just a lost opportunity; it deserved the proper, 6-issue length that it was planned to receive.
Here's to hoping that Okko makes it out of carbon freeze someday.
I enjoyed the DE Trilogy greatly and still consider it one of my favorite Star Wars stories. As a matter of fact, I will always recommend it to fans looking for "OT characters only" stories in comic books. I do give them fair warning about the art, as it may not be suitable to all tastes, but I tell them it's a great way to get into the Star Wars comic books. I also stress to them how it was done in 1991-2 before any other expanded material was really out there so you may have some "contradictions" along the way, but otherwise it's a great series. Cam Kennedy's art, in my opinion, was unattractive to look at when skimming through it, but once you read it you see it falls with the mood and tone of the story. One person I know recently bought the hardcover and is loving it.
To me Kennedy's art sets the mood of the story. If any other artist would have done that book it would have been an absolutely horrible read. Veitch is kind of like Lucas, IMO, a good idea man(to an extent) but ultimately a pretty hackney'd writer with some serious stilted dialogue. Kennedy's art, the colors he used, it all sets the mood and gives it a brooding foreboding atmosphere. It's like the Emperor's Theme from ROTJ is playing over the entire comic. Especially the scenes that are red/pink and green/yellow. The blue stuff is a bit more Rebel Alliance, The Force Theme.
Did he, though? We never really see Luke do anything particularly dark side-y, besides maybe that Force Doppleganger trick. If there's any moral terror that could have pushed him towards the dark side, it was his intentionally giving bad orders to get thousands of Imperials killed. Or his slaughtering of the Emperor's clones, which morally could be up there with murdering a child, as the the clones are "innocent" before they're inhabited by Sidious.
Sadly, the comic doesn't really go in depth on these mediation. We get Luke kneeling before the Emperor, making some crazy eyes, then eventually realizing he doesn't want to fight his sister. I guess just the experience of working under Palpatine could be kinda crazy-making, but the comics could do a much better job demonstrating exactly what Luke was going through.
I think they do a pretty good job of illustrating that Luke was pretty well mind frakked by Palpatine after the incident in the clone chamber. And I have a feeling those clones were basically blank slates. If Palpatine didn't inhabit them they were likely empty shells. He would do whatever he could to keep one of his own clones from waking up and becoming a challenger to his throne.
Doctor is Latin for "teacher". It comes from docere. See also docent, doctrine.
In a lot of languages, it's something similar. It actually corresponds to the Japanese sensei more than anything else. Strictly, sensei means "elder", but teachers, lawyers, doctors, clergymen, and politicians can be sensei.
That's a great way of looking at it. I think I'll do that the next time I go over the series. Thanks for that insight, Dawud.
Yeah, I always felt that Empire's End was hampered by the lack of issues and the rather jarring change in artwork. A proper six issue series would of allowed more depth to be spent on key events. The events of the issue are pretty epic when you think about it- the destruction of the troopship Pegalia, the destruction of Nespis and the scattering of the New Republic High Command and fleets, the final attack on the Eclipse II, and the final battle with Palpatine. We better art and better pacing, it could of been epic.
Agreed. It needed a whole lot more room to breathe. Especially Palpatine's pursuit of Leia and Anakin Solo.
And the artwork is truly jarring. What makes it worse is that they guy tried to imitate Kennedy's style and designs in his much more cartoony way... and frankly, it doesn't work. I'd be interested in seeing what that artist would have done if he'd done the artwork and designs in a way that was more fitting with the OT era. I mean, Cam Kennedy's work was brilliant to me... even if it is a bit off, and some of his designs that were not directly taken from the films were much more archaic and presaged the art style we end up seeing in TOTJ in some ways(this is a major beef I have with Jedi Academy: Leviathan... using the artist from TOTJ: The Sith War ends up with ship designs that look like they came straight out of 4,000 BBY). Had the EE artist made it his own, instead of trying to imitate Kennedy that might have actually worked better.
I agree that Empire's End could have used an extra issue or two for the story, but I thought the art was fitting. The art in the first two used a lot of darkness and acidic greens to convey the evil in the galaxy, but the final chapter where the Emperor is defeated used bright colors and and a clearer style of drawing to signify a happier state of affairs.
Of course, none of this was probably taken into consideration when the comics were created, but I think this explanation works.
There was another novelization based on the comic by Jedi_Anakin_Solo. It was very good imho. http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=7873707
I don't like his idea of Luke's saber being blue and making an excuse for that, and using Courtship no less. Blue should be considered an error and moreover, I feel like Dave Dorman's covers should reflect to us how it actually looked. Therefore, green lightsaber.
I remember being a kid and my first exposure to SW was DE I and II. I didn't like the coloring choices and was elated to see Shadows of the Empire with "natural" coloring, but now I appreciate the way they convey the mood of each scene and help create the atmosphere so I've completely reversed my opinion of it. Though I like how they went for a combination of coloring choices in the Empire issue that was illustrated by Kennedy. For some reason, seeing the civil war with both darker tones and naturalistic colors works really well, imo.
Really enjoyed the first two graphic novels when I was younger; didn't read Empire's End until I'd been on here a few years. Nowadays I think the sequels, or at least Palpatine being in them, really are unncessary-DE 1 wraps up the whole subject of Palpatine's rebirth quite nicely.
I agree. Sedriss and others would have been just fine. The floundering, but dangerous, remnants of Palpatine's latest reign of terror. Meanwhile, Luke is still doing what he did in DEII... which was great. Following the Holocron and seeking out Ossus with Kam Solusar, finding the Ysanna. In fact, I probably wouldn't have eliminated Sedriss so soon in favor of another Palpatine clone.
Or, equally good could have been the showing of Luke finding, fighting and ultimately redeeming and converting Kam Solusar... then move onto Operation Shadow Hand and Sedriss. Have that play out more concurrently with Luke and Kam going to Ossus. By the time Palpatine is revealed again that could have been the end of DEII. Empire's End could then pick up from there. It effectively extends EE without having to add some mystery content that just isn't there. Instead it begins DEII with content that is left out and leaves you scratching your head when you start DEII because you literally have no idea where this Kam Solusar came from or what his background really is.
Man, I wish Lightsider had been published.
Did they ever explain what happened to that guy who was frozen in carbonite?
I pretty much agree. We sadly don't get to see a whole lot of Operation Shadow Hand; DE2 could have really used twelve whole issues and less Morgoth-Palpatine.
If I could only read one thing from the post-film EU, I'd read Dark Empire, and it's the first thing I read. (From the pre-film EU, Darth Plagueis, although that's definitely not the first I read from that bunch, as Dark Empire was, instead, the start of a bad habit). It basically is the trilogy George Lucas never made -- I don't know if the finished product looks like what Mr. Lucas had in mind, but I think all he had in mind was this: Luke, Leia and the Rebellion, having dealt with Vader, take on the Emperor in a new series with a darker tone. Cam Kennedy's art is not to be missed, and the only regrettable aspects of the series -- its mutilated ending and Tom Veitch's unfortunate dialogue, can be easily overlooked as the reader is swept along by the most Star Wars-like experience beyond the movies. I also enjoy Jim Baikie's work on Empire's End very much; it surprises me to note that I am apparently the only one here who does.
I noticed that, in Mr. Syke's fan fiction "novelization" of the series, he made Sidious a Dune Saint Alia-style Abomination, born with a fully formed intellect and psyche because his mother was a spice addict. Not subtle, but a very nice touch. And now, it's been confirmed, from a certain point of view: Darth Plagueis implies that Palpatine was born a fully grown abomination.
Now, for those who think the name "Galaxy Gun" is silly, I am under the impression that it was based, in name, on the Nazi "[link=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_gun]sun gun[/link]." "Sun gun" may not have been an official name, but it's a real superweapon project (planned, never constructed) that sounds sillier than "Galaxy Gun." And, for all we know, the official name of the Galaxy Gun was something like "Imperial Hyperspatial Strategic Warfare Prototype."
I really hope that Sun Gun thing is used in that Space Nazi movie Iron Sky....
I had always hoped that one of the few sith minions that made it alive (since they all got offed pretty fast), through being captured, Xecr Nist, would have played a larger role in the Star Wars EU. Always thought that was a wasted potential. Be it someone who ends up escaping, learning more about the sith ways (out of all of them, I remember him being written as someone who worshipped Vader), being a guy in the background responsible for restoring the sith, maybe helping out darth krayt become darth krayt with his order, etc. Again, just thought he could have been a character to be expanded upon (heh)...whatever happened to him?
Also, has it ever been explained, anywhere, what was up with the Ewoks in Dark Empire 1 at the beginning? I thought that was pretty neat to have them there, as they don't really appear much in EU (I loved the Ewok in the X-wing novels though).
Has Han Solo's ex-gf appeared anywhere else besides these comics?
Has the weapons making world of...whatever the name was, from Dark Empire 2, made other appearances in EU? I rather dug those mecha things. And the trio of Lando, R2 and 3po.
Despite any flaws, I really did dig the crap out of Dark Empire 1 and 2, I was old enough to be into comics by that time when they came out and I was pretty excited over them. However, I was pretty disappointed by Empire's End...going from it being a 6 issue series, to 2 AND not having cam kennedy do the artwork was lame.
Maybe if we write enough, they'll let Veitch and Kennedy re-do it the way it was meant to be...now that's a special edition I approve of!