ST Darth Plagueis in IX

Palpatine's return in Episode IX, gives some vindication to those of us who believed in the "Snoke = Plagueis" Theory. So many people (including Rian Johnson) laughed at us for believing that Plagueis could make a return. Sure, we were wrong about Snoke; but if they are willing to bring back Palpatine, then the theory of bringing back Plagueis is no more unbelievable. J.J. could have gone either way.

 

Plagueis. Everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

 

Eh, I dunno if I buy this Palpatine is vindication for Plagueis people.

It's a cute argument though.

However, wasn't the idea behind Plagueis that he was more important than Palpatine? That doesn't seem to be the case.

The Plagueis idea never made sense to me because I figured that if they were going to bring anyone back from the dead, it would be Palp.

And that's who they've picked.

But I will concede that Plagueis would have made the ST much better. I think the vindication Plagueis people need is simply that Snoke was a joke, so much so Rian Johnson killed him as soon as he could. Snoke was an empty suit who brought nothing to the table like Plagueis would have.

 

I think it is a mild vindication just from the simple possibility that it appears that the concept of “cheating death” is finally becoming a part of the story.

I personally have always felt that it is odd storytelling to bring such a major, potentially story-altering concept like that up in one of the early films of a 9-part saga and never have it play a role at some point. It was essentially the central theme of an entire movie; it has to play a factor at some point and it seems like J.J. agrees.

 

Snoke wasn't Plagueis from a certain point of view.

 

Um, it was THE theme of ROTS, so how did it not play a role at some point?
The characer of Plagueis was entirely irrelevant for that, just a vessel through which Palpatine could tell the story (and imply that he killed him). Adding the name was nothing but a minor sidenote to add depth to the story. Anakin's entire behaviour revolves around achieving this ability. It doesn't actually need to happen in the movie for it to play a role in the story. The hunt for it, and consequences of the desire to get it, are already giving it a role. Sort of like a MacGuffin. You don't need to see it for it to have an impact on the story.

I mean, we also got told that the ability to destroy a planet was insignificant next to the power of the force, but we didn't exactly get any examples of that so far, now did we?

I don't really see how that is the case at all. There is no comparison between Palpatine and Plagueis. One was the villain of the entire saga, an iconic character in its own right, the other is just a name that got dropped at some point with nothing further to it. While it certainly wouldn't have been impossible to bring him back (though I wouldn't have seen the point of it, as it would have diminished Palpatine), it wasn't really something that would have been of the same impact as bringing back Palpatine. One has people freak out everywhere, the other would have caused a small group of people to go "wait a minute, I think I have heard that name before".

I don't think that people scoffed at the theoretical concept of Plagueis making a return, more at the idea that Snoke was definately him.

 

This may be better placed in this thread.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...ke-deformed-injuries-walk-Andy-Serkis-details

Snoke is “a very vulnerable and wounded character”, adding: “He has suffered and he has suffered injury.

“The way that his malevolence comes out is in reaction to that. His hatred of the Resistance is fueled by what’s happened to him personally.” (The Emperor would sure foot this bill)

“You witness his physicality,” Serkis teased. “His body is kind of twisted up like a corkscrew, and so he has limited movement.

“His aggression and his anger is contained and restricted by that physicality.”

https://ew.com/article/2015/11/12/star-wars-andy-serkis-supreme-leader-snoke/

If Snoke is a “damaged” character, that raises the question: Did his wounds come from the clash between the Rebellion and the Empire, seen in the original Star Warstrilogy? Serkis hesitates here, but then says he believes Snoke was outside of that conflict. (Well Plagueis body was)

“No, he’s a new character in this universe. It is very much a newly-introduced character (careful wording here),” Serkis says. “He’s aware of what’s gone on, in the respect that he has been around and is aware of prior events. I think it’d be fair to say that he is aware of the past to a great degree.” (The Emperor would sure foot this bill)
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Anyone know of anything that would put a nail in this possibility I have seen suggested? It is kind of crazy how Andy Serkis word games fits the theory.

Snoke not appearing until after they have been in the unknown regions (dark side source Palpatine sensed) - and his contingency plan?

Obsession with killing Luke.

Also Serkis places Snoke at about 200 years old + which could fit Plagueis body as an alien.

Snoke had at least one other apprentice besides Kylo which fits the Emperor.

The word games with JJ about Snoke not being a Sith but no one knowing anything about his history.

The Emperor would be in need of a new body with how broken down Snoke's was. Is Kylo supposed to be that body eventually because it has to be someone that was strong with the force?

That ashes in the urn stuff about Plagueis is not canon I think. And that female Snoke in the artbook could just be before they nailed their story down entirely. It also would explain why they had to take Snoke out without saying anything about his history.

Maybe something rules this out I am not seeing.

 

I guess we just disagree on this. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong. I happen to believe that if, in telling a story, you spend an entire movie on the concept of cheating death, we should actually see someone cheat death at some point.

Maybe it is just the Game of Thrones fan in me that is looking for the foreshadow in everything.

It APPEARS that we were wrong about it being Plagueis, but maybe Palpatine figured it out.

"To cheat death, is a power only one has been able to achieve, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." - You don't drop a line in a 9-part saga like that and not have it play a role later on.

 

It's effectively the same thing though.

If they would have had Plagueis planned then it'd be very easy over 2 movies to build to him in the 3rd not unlike the Emperor in the context of the OT before the PT except in that case you would need to do more than that in each movie and more still in IX. Over 3 movies it could be done.

It's actually far easier (if done properly) because then Sidious is dead and the story moves forward as an actual sequel should. That Sidious' master could actually cheat death not just for others but himself as well could work.

As it is there was no plan and so no build. Instead they have to go to Sidious out of nowhere and cram the story in. It'd be useless to cram Plagueis in IX after the last two movies but Sidious is relatively "easy" at least on the surface. Whether they actually make sense of his return in the context of I-VI is another matter entirely.

No reason to think they will be able to in the movie itself but just have something happen then rely on future books and comics to tell the story.

In the context of Lucas' six episode saga the point was that the Sith can't do it and the Jedi could. What it really needs is complete selflessness compared to the Sith complete selfishness.

In their 9 part version of the saga they haven't done a thing of note with the Sith other than some name drops. That Snoke and Ren were effectively Sith not calling themselves that wasn't even touched.

 

ROFL Reading the following article might cost you your sanity.

https://screenrant.com/star-wa...resurrection-darth-plagueis/2/

The reveal might have been too much for the authors. Palpatine = Darth Plagueis. Really????

 

I am Plagueis. Don't tell anyone, but I've been cheating death since 1970.

 

Just some calculation.
Rey v Plageus would be maximum time domain, since Plageus is directly mentioned in ROTS as prerequisite to Sidius.
Maximum theoretical power could be extracted by having Rey face off against Plageus.
There is no direct evidence that Plageus as a character makes an appearance.
There is direct evidence that a teaching of Plageus, cheating death, has been effected.
There is implicit time domain when Luke says something about a thousand generations.
Plageus is part of the PT that is historically dismissed.
Plageus is not part of the OT that Disney is deforesting and strip mining like there is no tomorrow.
The ratio of [ ( energy input to set up a Rey v Plageus face off ) to ( energy output from a Rey v Plageus face off ) ] is higher than the ratio of [ ( energy input to set up a Rey v Sidius face off ) to ( energy output from a Rey v Sidius face off ) ]. So it does not make economic sense for Disney to deal with Plageus as a character. Disney is all about UK tax write offs. Plageus will not appear in this film.

When Disney says things like 'wrap up the saga', it's really talking about what can it do to pull in maximum OT-sourced revenue, at the expense of maximum PT-sourced revenue. Disney is not weighting the PT (target market, fans, crowds, revenue stream) with any weight it gives to the OT (target market, fans, crowds, revenue stream). If it were weighting the PT with any accord, the ST films would not be copy paste smash and grab armed robbery of the OT films. The Venn diagram of the dollars Disney is chasing does include Sidius, and does not include Plageus.

 

Plaguies isn't coming back only Sheev is .

Also Disney is weighting the Prequels with Age of Republic , Master and apprentice , Queen's Shadow and Jedi Lost all coming out. This is also the first trailer . we already saw with the oracle leak that the thing the oracle is sitting on could be what the Naboo statues are based on .

 

Probably one of the greatest EU books there is !!
It should be canonised, but please ... continue ...

 

Plagueis was never there.

It was a laden with subtext which many may have simply missed. The mining of subtext or subtext mining was key to the narrative.

 

Now that his apprentice appears to have also cheated death it definitely buries any interest I have ever had for his character. Great 2 minute speech about him in episode 3 though..... also given by the one remaining Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

To say one is not interested in Palpatine’s master is to say that one is not interested in Palpatine. I’ll never understand it. When I learned Palpatine had a master my mind was blown.


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I, nor most people, said Snoke had to be Plagueis. Hey, I much prefer Palpatine's return, over Plagueis returning. I always figured that the main villain would have to be connected to Palpatine somehow. I just thought Plagueis would be more likely to posses Snoke, because what Palpatine himself said about Plagueis learning how to cheat death, and create life. And I certainly don't look at Plagueis as being unimportant, because of the fact that Lucas inserted Plagueis, and significant info about him, into an important conversation between Palpatine and Anakin. I was simply wrong. And I am glad, because we get Palpatine himself, returning from The Beyond, in Episode IX.

 

Maybe he wrote the Plagueis dialogue just for the case he makes a ST to explain how Palpatine could return. As a hint how he either survived or came back from death.

Plagueis and what Palps was supposed to have learnt from him may have simply been MacGuffins and be introduced as a way to explain how Sheev was able to cheat death...

 

@Darth Caliban True. Good point.

 

While I still think it doubtful and unlikely that Plagueis will make an appearance, the return of Sidious does make it more likely than it ever was before (which is still not very likely).

 

I think Darth Plagueis could be mentioned by Palpatine and like that he indeed learned to cheat death, he did just lie to Anakin.

 

I'm now of the view that Plagueis must return.

As either Plapatine.

Or as Rey.

I'm serious when I say that Rey Plagueis could save the ST for me.