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Mini Series Darth Vader in Kenobi Series

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by RX_Sith, Jul 18, 2020.

  1. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    In my view, Han absolutely cannot meet Obi-wan before ANH. That would be a world-bending mistake.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
  2. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Just like Obi-Wan cannot have any interaction with Vader. Cannot face him. Cannot be sensed by Vader. Nothing.
     
  3. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    No, not just like that. There’s space between the dialogue in ANH for another confrontation between Vader and Obi-wan. A small space, but still space. There’s no space for Obi-wan to know Han.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
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  4. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    IF Han knew that was Obi-Wan.

    These are not the droids you are looking for in case you've forgotten.
    Wouldn't take much for Chewie to persuade Han to let the cloaked man aboard and help in the background where Chewie knows but Han has no idea about.
    Just how extreme was Obi-Wan's aging whilst on Tattooine?
     
  5. Lobey-One Kenobi

    Lobey-One Kenobi Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2009
    As discussed earlier in the thread, there's no space for Obi and Vader to have a confrontation prior to ANH. It wouldn't fit.

    Same goes for Han.
     
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  6. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Bor Mullet and I never agree on anything. I think at this point, we disagree just to disagree.
     
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  7. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Maul's plan was to destroy Palps' plan. It wasn't to kill Anakin. If Palps' plan fails, Anakin does not turn. Maul knew he had to destroy Palps, not so much out of hatred and obsession, but of knowing what would happen and what Palps was capable of.

    Maul had a hatred for Sidious for killing Savage Opress, but he was downright obsessed with killing Obi-Wan for cutting him on half. If you go back into prior seasons of TCW, you'll see Maul's obsession with Obi-Wan grow.

    Sorry for the double post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  8. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Actually, we just agreed on Han not meeting Obi-wan before ANH!
     
  9. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 7, 2016
    I think Obi Wan can meet Han. they just can't become friends. they can encounter each other fine. although I ain't sure what the point would be in showing that.
     
  10. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Yeah I can't see much point either. I prefer Han just showing off and being disrespectful in ANH as it is. There doesn't need to be a writer/story trying to be the one that re-introduces us to Han and Obi (introducing themselves to each other). It's done. And already done well.

    I'd prefer Obi's story to include other elements of scum and villainy in Mos Eisley. Maybe Anchorhead? Something a bit like Jabba's palace (but not literally that) or just some encounters of Obi being ripped off. Some skiffs! Maybe a place where people duel to the death...Some new villainous types would be great - introduced quickly and fulfill a short arc. Like that bounty hunter who betrays Mando.
     
  11. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Now, Obi Wan and Lando... ?

    That's the kind of smooth encounter I'm talking about.
     
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  12. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    It's a Christmas miracle!!!!!!! [face_party]
     
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  13. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    Vader and Obi-Wan are entwined, to keep them apart for 20 years just seems excessive and forced to fit with how some people read into the dialogue in ANH. There is no doubt that they cant have a running battle but the could have at least one confrontation, it would have to be early enough for Vader to consider himself junior or less confident to Obi-Wan. They can also have a series of near misses if Obi-Wan were to venture away from Tatooine, something akin to Vader nearly catching Leia in the Tantive IV in Rogue One.
     
  14. Aah Fisto

    Aah Fisto Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 30, 2020
    But Anakin already views himself as a master and stronger than the rest of the Jedi in ROTS. When he turns to Vader he’s talking about his own empire, you can get away with the line in ANH because at the time he was still Obi Wans Padawan but it just doesn’t fit after that.

    If he does a bit of chasing up of clues on the whereabouts of Kenobi that’s fine, but I’ve got 0 interest in them meeting
     
  15. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    But then Mustafar and Obi-Wan happens, that must've been a massive blow to his ego. Here you have somebody he considers to be jealous of his power not only defeating him but leaving him as some sort of cyborg monstrosity. He also could've been referring to himself being a learner as a Sith Lord, which he was and was repeatedly reminded of such by the master, Palpatine but I'd consider that less likely.

    It really doesn't matter what interest level you have in them meeting, these two characters share a connection.
     
  16. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    The line in ANH, "I was but the learner" implies that Anakin is admitting he was bested by Obi-Wan on Mustafar during their fateful duel, in spite of being the more powerful Force user. Vader may have been more powerful, but Obi-Wan was much wiser, and used his vast experience to overcome Vader's power. Vader is basically acknowledging this. And the finish of the line, "But now I am the master" is Vader saying he will not lose to Obi-Wan again.

    Regardless of their connection, they cannot meet. They cannot duel. They cannot even sense each other. Doing so invalidates the events of ANH. But let's say they duel again. How many times would them running into each other and dueling be acceptable to you before it invalidates canon? Two times? Three? Nine? You do realize if they duel, Vader has to lose EVERY one? And yes, Obi-Wan escaping to somewhere safe where Vader could not kill Obi-Wan is a loss for Vader, as that is his only motivation to face Obi-Wan again.
     
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  17. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I don’t want them to duel again either, but why would Vader have to lose each confrontation? An inconclusive draw makes more sense. After all, Vader losing again means Vader...dying, doesn’t it? Or at least losing all his limbs again or something...
     
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  18. DarthKegs

    DarthKegs Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2019
    I'm the same, wouldn't really make any sense if they were to duel again. I've no problem with them meeting briefly but a duel would just be a bit silly given whats gone before.
     
  19. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    In ANH, Vader says..."A presence I've not felt since..."

    ROTS' ending leads to this point, as it establishes how those characters arose - Vader, Tarkin and Sidious as new "masters over their Empire", Kenobi and Yoda as defeated hermits, and other influential good guys like Bail Organa generally stripped of democratic power. This segues into ANH as everyone expects. Good guy, ragtag rebels and hermits with freedom v bad guy, faceless empire with immense power and control.

    It's debatable whether a literal Vader v Kenobi meeting makes much difference to this archetypal set up that makes the OT so easy to enjoy. Which begs the question: Why do it?

    For me, a literal Vader v Kenobi meeting would feel shoe-horned in because it changes/adds nothing to the plot or motivations.

    I think it would be gambling with the character arcs, the "original" stories. Vader's line of "A presence I've not felt since..." would no longer refer to his transformation to Vader but to a small skirmish where Kenobi gets away.

    It may touch upon some negative images of Disney...Things like..."Disney's rewriting the OT!" after things like "Disney's copying the OT within the ST". (Albeit very lucratively).

    ...unless a V v K meet adds to their characters. e.g., How does Kenobi (or anyone else) find out the man-in-the-suit is Anakin? That might involve Kenobi observing Vader in action somehow and could be quite dramatically done. That might be fun.

    In this scenario, all that a direct face-to-face meeting adds is that Vader wishes to destroy the Jedi and his former master but fails to do so. We know most of this and adding a "failure" to Vader's persona going in to the OT would be a little undermining.

    So I think any connection to Vader in the Kenobi series must be personally close but not literally so.

    I think it would be great to show Kenobi's gradual resignation to his fate: That he will not save the galaxy from his friend because Vader is too powerful/hateful to ultimately be confronted by those he feels no love for/feels betrayed by, and with whom he has no familial connection. (With family representing immortality/continuity into the future...) Yoda and Kenobi could "commune across the stars" to establish this.

    As character-development goes, Kenobi and/or the Cassian series could build up a personal story between Vader and Kenobi/Empire and Andor.

    e.g. The plan they had at the end of ROTS - to go into hiding - could be dramatised in Kenobi. Could be fun too. :)

    e.g., A story about why Yoda and Kenobi - in spite of an emerging Rebellion - remain hidden and only emerge when forced to. Kenobi's knowledge that a time will come to confront Vader - and by Luke specifically, rather than a Rebellion - would explain plot and character at the same time.

    Lots of opportunity for local SW action in Kenobi, like Mando, and lots of deepening of his character, just not the grand, fight back, conflict and redemption action of the OT.
     
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  20. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    That all said, the prequels shoehorned in all kinds of inorganic cameos and scenes. That trilogy was retcon central. So we can’t say Lucas didn’t start the trend.
     
  21. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Wait aren't you always singing Rogue One's praises, despite, y'know,
    [​IMG]
     
  22. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    That's true. It was not a good move, nor one to be followed, IMHO.

    Telling a good story - Rogue One being clearly a great piece of storytelling - is key for me, FWIW. There are a few potential blanks to fill in the original OT mythos (and highlighted even more so by the PT) without another Kenobi v Anakin/Vaader encounter.

    I hope we get all of that. In 6 (?) episodes, LOL.
     
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  23. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    An inconclusive draw is a loss for Vader. His only motivation in facing Obi-Wan again is so he can kill him.
    He's an extremely powerful Sith lord who cannot beat Obi-Wan until Obi-Wan is old and decrepit? Kind of goes against the fear factor of Vader. Makes Vader out to be not so powerful after all.

    "When I left you, I was but the learner, and I was still the learner when we met those three other times, but now I am the Master."
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  24. SilentGuy66

    SilentGuy66 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Yeah if Vader and Kenobi end up having several several duels across canon and each one ends with Obi Wan escaping you run the risk of turning Vader into another Inquisitor or TCW era General Grievious.
     
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  25. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    They don't have to duel, shoehorning them into a specific act or situation is hardly dramatic, however if they were to be close enough on a planet that they can sense each other...to have a will they, won't they fight situation can be suspenseful. To have them duel wouldn't solve anything as there can't be a result, i wouldn't deny that, but for them to have near misses, that's progressive and building up to ANH.

    You can have a situation where Obi-Wan locates or is located by another Jedi and they end up fighting Vader. The Jedi knows Obi-Wan's location but dies before revealing it. And in that it highlights a basic scenario of Vader partly hunting Obi-Wan, at least for the earlier part of it, could Yoda "bridge" the former master and student without revealing the locations???
     
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