main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Lit Dejarik Rules - Galaxy's Edge boardgame vs Jedi Challenges AR game

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sidv88, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I tried to find the old games forum, but I couldn't seem to find it...

    As many of you may know, Disneyland Galaxy's Edge is selling sabacc and dejarik playable games. I didn't see sabacc during my visit (it may have been sold out), but dejarik was there. In any case, I read that the sabacc being sold is not the normal sabacc featured in the EU and Rebels, but Corellian Spike Sabacc from the Solo film, with a 62 card deck instead of 76.

    Now, Dejarik has had rules made recently for the Jedi Challenges Augmented Reality game. A summary can be found on wookieepedia: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dejarik .

    A youtube review of Galaxy's Edge Dejarik has an overview of the rules. They are not compatible with the Jedi Challenges AR rules, to put it mildly.

    Furthermore, I did a study of the Dejarik scene in the Star Wars: A New Hope film. Very tellingly, it seems that neither of these sets of rules fits what is actually in the movie itself! :eek:

    For example, the Galaxy's Edge Dejarik rules state that no piece is allowed to move onto or pass the center circle (you can see this rule listed in the youtube video). What does R2-D2 do in ANH? Move the Houjix to the center circle. :r2:

    The Dejarik rules from the Jedi Challenges AR game, as summarized on Wookieepedia, don't fit the ANH scene either. For example, Chewie's Kintan Strider clearly moves 6 spaces in the scene. The AR game rules show the Kintan Strider only has a movement number of 2.

    The Mantellian Savrip in the AR game only has a movement number of 1, despite clearly moving 3 spaces in the movie itself.

    What are your thoughts on this?

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  2. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    You know how there's like 50 versions of sabacc? Clearly the same is the case for dejarik.
     
    ColeFardreamer and sidv88 like this.
  3. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Officially, there's 2: EU Sabacc (canonized in Rebels) and Corellian Spike sabacc. More importantly, the released games fit what's on screen (WEG sabacc deck with Rebels and Han Solo Card Game/Galaxy's Edge Sabacc with Solo film).

    Dejarik by my count has 3? There seems to be a Wizards of the Coast Miniatures Dejarik ruleset back when WOTC had the Star Wars license played at GenCon, but I can't find the rules online. Then there's the Jedi Challenges AR Dejarik and now Galaxy's Edge Dejarik.

    What I find concerning though is that I can find no indication that any "official" Dejarik variant actually matches the ANH scene. Wouldn't that be the first reference that rulemakers would go to?
     
  4. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Oh similiar minds, sid... I discussed this with friends right now and discovered the youtube vid today too! Thx for creating this topic.

    As Daneira said dejarik has lots of variants in Legends and canon. Still sad to see them fail the movies though those operated before there were any rules. I now wonder what the wider differences are aside the center circle. And what common ground all variants may keep.

    From canon rule variants and fanmade ones I studied over the years before, as well as various Legends mentions of the game variants I think it comes down to this:

    Dejarik is a game with very diverse variants that have nearly nothing in common. Some play it akin to chess whereas others treat it more like a tabletop game with figure stats. Some Legends variants mention it played with starship models instead of beasts even or any other famous holofigures. So kinda it can be inuniverse FFG tabletop too.

    I am glad it is playeable at all. But with the 10 or more Legends Sabacc variants vs. new canons extrem Sabacc variant and its own variants of that between Hasbro Game Version, Galaxy's Edge version and movie versions etc. I guess we'll never settle on the ultimate one.


    still lets debate the rules and variants and maybe compile comparative lists of all versions, baatu, movie, Jedi Challenges and any other from Legends and canon for Sabacc and Dejarik both. As well as other inuniverse games like Pazaak etc.
     
  5. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Corellian Spike Sabacc has 2 versions, Hasbro game is different from movie version I heard, and Baatu has movie version rules, not Hasbro ones. Can you confirm?

    I miss the Wotc rules for Dejarik, care to enlighten me? Just knew they had figures for it once.

    Question is since when do dejarik rules exist first and who made them? LFL had them under lock and key for some time as per Pablo back then. But was WOTC first? Maybe its like movie aurebesh and gibberish they could not turn into coherent rules? But I doubt that. Fans made their own rules based on movie that worked.
     
  6. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I don't have the sabacc deck from Galaxy's Edge, so I just assumed they were the same ones from the Han Solo Card Game based on youtube reviews. Maybe I'm wrong. But they are definitely not the EU Sabacc rules featured in Rebels.

    WOTC Dejarik rules references online are few. Here's one: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/182162/dejarik . I don't know what the rules themselves actually consisted of. I'm also unclear how official they were? It may have been this set: http://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16823 , as this page makes reference to using the ruleset at an upcoming GenCon convention.

    I think fanmade rules are ironically more film-accurate than the official ones. For example, this fan ruleset http://www.vassalengine.org/mediawiki/images/5/5e/Dejarik_Rules.pdf literally has a play by play summary on page 9 of how their rules match up with each move R2 and Chewie made in ANH, although even this has a few errors (the Mantellian Savrip's move number is 2 when it clearly moves 3 spaces in the film).
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    ColeFardreamer likes this.
  7. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013

    thx for the links. Regarding the difference in move lengths, I might have an idea. Most rules tend to stay simplistic and attribute set movement lengths. But what if one adds another layer to the game by making these lengths variable under certain conditions? That would account for the differences. Like movements are set but each figure got an additional field it can move just once. Like a joker or bonus.
     
  8. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    For what it's worth, I just played a game against myself using the fan ruleset found at https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...5hbWVwdWJsaXNoaW5nfGd4OjMxYmQ2MDJiOWY0MDU2MDQ , which is mostly based on the Jedi Challenges AR rules, with my own modifications on the Kintan Strider and Mantellian Savrip movement numbers to reflect the moves in the film.

    And... the game wasn't very satisfying. I don't care what Tsavong Lah thinks, the Kintan strider gambit is quite awful and Chewie was a goner once he lost that piece to R2. The game was also very short. Maybe I'll have to try the actual Jedi Challenges AR (but I don't feel like getting another headset aside from my HTC Vive), but this unsatisfying gameplay may be why they changed the rules for the Galaxy's Edge boardgame version, regardless of the continuity violations with ANH.

    Making rules for actual interesting gameplay may have overriden the need to behold themselves to continuity on one movie scene that likely didn't have long-term gameplay viability in mind, no matter how iconic that scene is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    Alpha-Red likes this.
  9. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Wouldn't be concerned with different rule sets. How many variants on poker are there? It's a big galaxy, surely there are more than 2 variants of sabacc.

    There's also a ridiculous number of chess variants.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     
  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I'd be fine with the variants if at least one of them matched up with the film...!
     
  11. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I doubt much thought was put into the rules of dejarik in 1976.

    Maybe Artoo is a cheat.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     
  12. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    The scene was indeed designed to showcase the animation movements of the models. That's why the Kintan Strider moves 6 spaces, to show off the animation. But when you put that into actual rules, either the Strider moves an unusually large amount of spaces for a game piece, or all the pieces can travel half the board in one move and the game is over real quick. That's what happened when I modified a set of rules to play exactly like in the film:
    I also think the 10 piece variant canonized in Solo should be put into the actual playable games so that gameplay would be made longer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  13. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Finally found the WOTC miniatures rules and cards for Dejarik. Those actually seem to fit what's in the film flawlessly, as opposed to the Galaxy's Edge and Jedi Challenges rulesets.
     
  14. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Can you provide them for all of us? Thx
     
  15. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    The WOTC Dejarik is basically the Star Wars miniatures game using the cards that came with the Dejarik miniatures on a Dejarik board.

    Rules for movement and attacking are at the Star Wars Miniatures club website: http://swmgamers.com/PDF/Rules/Rulebook_CloneWars.pdf . Since movement in the Minis game can go up to 12, it fits what's onscreen best, whereas the Galaxy's Edge and Jedi Challenges movement rules don't reflect what's in ANH.

    The cards for each of the Dejarik pieces are at the Rebel Scum website: http://www.rebelscum.com/SWminiMOTF.asp . This website is missing the Monnok card, which you can find at the Games Empire website https://gamesempire.com.au/collections/star-wars-miniatures/products/masters-of-the-force-35-monnok .

    Now all you have to do is find and buy these out of print minis and cards on ebay somewhere, then buy the Dejarik board (just buy the Galaxy's Edge Dejarik), and you can play!

    Also, the Yoda: Dark Rendezvous novel mentions the 'Courtier' variant which is strictly skill based and has no element of luck. Thus in Legends, there is an element of luck in mainstream Dejarik, and this matches well with the dice rolls for attacking in the WOTC rules.

    Although it doesn't say so, I believe the Galaxy's Edge Dejarik ruleset matches closely and might as well be the Courtier variant in 'Yoda Dark Rendezvous'.

    The Legends article on wookieepedia says Dejarik began as a Jedi game, although it's not sourced which work said this. I think the Jedi Challenges ruleset is this Jedi game.

    Thus, each of the 3 official Dejarik rules has a place in Legends canon.
    1. WOTC Miniatures Dejarik is likely the Dejarik in ANH.
    2. Galaxy's Edge Dejarik is likely the Courtier variant mentioned in the "Yoda: Dark Rendezvous" novel.
    3. Jedi Challenges AR game is likely the Jedi game Dejarik began as.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019