CT Devil’s Advocate: why not change the CT more to match the PT?

Let me preface this by saying the changes in the Special Editions still feel like a kick in the nuts to me.

That being said, if Lucas was making changes to the CT to link it better to the PT, why not go further? Most of the parts where the CT and PT don’t sync up are in Obi Wan’s exposition in ESB and ROTJ; why not tweak those? I’m sure they could get a talented voice actor or someone who does impressions to fill in a line or a couple words.
For instance, when Obi Wan’s ghost tells Luke to go to Yoda, instead of saying that’s who trained him, he could just say “great Jedi master” or Jedi grand master. Or tweaking where Obi Wan tells Luke about how he “took it upon myself” to train Anakin.
Maybe something in Luke and Leia’s dialogue about their mother?

Thoughts?

 

They should take out Obi Wan's line about Darth Vader killing Luke's father since that was retconned to not have happened. It would also be nice to remove Luke and Leia's incest kiss since they later decided in Jedi to make them brother and sister.

 

Because Lucas already addressed all these things when he made the prequels themselves.

 

Good lord... I actually hope Disney remake the PT to match the OT! The only element I would miss would be Darth Maul.

 

I think you are correct. When I first read your response, I almost had the knee-jerk reaction to post about how they don’t synch up IMO. But the more I thought about it, if GL felt that he had addressed those issues adequately in the Prequels, regardless whether I felt he did or not, he would not feel the need for further, extensive changes to the CT.

 

From a certain point of view, perhaps.

 

Why not? Because older, culturally important works of art shouldn’t be altered to reflect, reinforce, and lend validity to newer works of art. Art is meant to be a product of its time, and I’d rather the OT stand as inconsistent with the PT in regards to small-picture details than continually updated in order to uphold an infinitely flexible and fluid canon.

 

No, absolutely not. I refuse to watch the S.E.'s and desire for the theatrical releases to come back.

 

The prequels shouldn't have created those continuity issues in the first place

 

I know right. All GL had to do was write down the 10 or so lines from the OT that contained backstory and adhere to them when writing the PT

 

I don't think people would really care that much about potential changes if they released the original theatrical releases for the fans and for archival purposes. But because those haven't been released for whatever reason, well, I can understand why people are so resistant to revered classics being changed.. especially when some of those changes were pretty pointless thematically. Most of the changes George made were stupid (the dated CG in Tatooine in the first movie, the whole Jedi Rocks sequence, Vader pointlessly shouting in the climactic twist at the end of Return of the Jedi - show not tell was already in effect here, George) but some were good. For example, Victory Celebration feels like a much more triumphant and resonant ending for the Skywalker saga as a whole. I'd be fine with them cutting Leia kissing Luke in that early scene in Empire Strikes Back since that romance angle is pretty much dropped after that scene and then murdered for good with Leia becoming his sister in Return of the Jedi. I'm personally fine with Hayden's Anakin being used in the final scene of Return of the Jedi but I think they could have him come in and use a shot where he is acting the scene (instead of the BTS costume footage that they threw in). I think there is room for growth there, for sure, especially as the franchise continues to grow.

But definitely agree that they should probably focus on releasing the original films, if only for archival purposes.

 

Art is meant to be whatever the artist wants it to be.

 

Absolutley this, there was no excuse for them.

 

Watching ANH the other day, for the first time ever Obi-Wan's dialogue during his duel with Vader stuck out to me, specifically how Ben kept calling him 'Darth'.

Due to the PT, I would expect Obi-wan to still refer to him as Anakin instead of Darth (which sounds slightly silly. Does that mean you could call Maul 'Darth' too?) At least, have some more lines of dialogue that acknowledge their past connection beyond the mere "I was the student, now I am the master" bit.

Subtle dialogue changes or even additions such as that, I wouldn't mind if they made. For their whole duel scene during ANH doesn't properly reflect the drama and emotion of their previous struggle or even their relationship,as shown in the PT. The duel itself was tame and that lack of connection makes the scene seem weaker overall.

 

Is "telling a story" not a good enough excuse? You might as well criticize Empire for creating a continuity issue with A New Hope regarding Luke's father.

The PT didn't create any continuity issues that they didn't simultaneously resolve. Just like Empire--except that continuity issue wasn't technically resolved until the following film with Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" speech.

 

You can’t compare Obi-Wan withholding the truth from Luke to Leia remembering her mother who died in childbirth...

 

Sure I can. Stop me.

Obi-Wan wasn't withholding the truth from Luke. As of the making of ANH, that was the truth. TESB retconned those words to mean something else. TESB retconned Alec Guinness's performance to mean something else. It retconned lots of stuff.

Leia's memories of her mother were retconned in a similar way. The only difference is you don't like the retcon.

 

No, the difference is that Leila’s words make no sense. “The Force did it” isn’t an explanation, its just a big ol plot hole.

 

"The Force did it" absolutely is an explanation, because the Force has been solidly established of being able to do such things:

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

It is a totally reasonable explanation based on already-established facts about the Force and how it functions, and which does not contradict the literal meaning of Leia's words in any way. Which is a far cry more than you can say about the TESB retcon, which blatantly contradicted the literal meaning of Obi-Wan's words in A New Hope and required ROTJ to interpolate a metaphorical meaning onto them in order for them to make any sense.

You just don't like the retcon. That's what we call an "opinion" around these parts. And also everywhere else, for that matter.

 

Except Empire already addresses it with “why didn’t you tell me?” We now knew that Ben was lying, we just didn’t know why.

Yet Luke says he has no memory of his mother. Which is weird, because he has the Force too. And has been connected to it for years.

 

Because Luke is a different person than Leia. He just didn't get those visions. Why didn't he? The same reason he never even mentioned his mother until ROTJ. He always had more of a connection to his father.

But he's also wrong. His mother's last words before dying were, "There is still good in him." Luke repeats those words multiple times in ROTJ, including during the very conversation he is having with Leia. He does remember. He just doesn't realize it. He doesn't realize he is his mother's memory. His mother, and her love for Anakin despite all he's done, lives on in him.

 

Okay. I guess Leia is just a very literal person with her “she died when I was very young”.

What’s your view on Uncle Owen wanting Anakin to stay on Tatooine and not get involved then? Obi is a big fat liar?

 

I don't even understand the objection here. Yeah? She did die when she was very young. What else would her adoptive parents have told her? That her mother died literal moments after giving birth to her? Why would Bail and Breha have gone into that level of detail?

My view is that he wanted Anakin to stay on Tatooine and not get involved. Next.

 

Lol okay, I don’t remember Owen having any particular opinion on Anakin going off with Obi-Wan.

 

That means he didn't have one?