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Did Darth Sidious love Darth Maul?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Latorski, Mar 6, 2005.

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  1. Latorski

    Latorski Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 14, 2002
    I know conventional wisdom states that Sidious uses everyone and cares about no one, but he'd trained Maul since he was a child.
    We don't know much of Sidious' backstory, and its possible Maul was his first apprentice.
    He might have been like a son to him.
    The Sith can have attachments. They have feelings.
     
  2. Cereal_Killa

    Cereal_Killa Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 4, 2005
    If there was a cut scene of Sidious from TPM holding Maul's cut lightsaber all by himself and crying saying that now he has to get a new apprentice then you might be on to something. But there isn't. He has no feelings for any of his apprentices other then "Oh well got to start over again."

    That is it.
     
  3. Darth Kruel

    Darth Kruel Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 3, 2000
    Friendship is altogether different on the dark side. Maul is nothing more than a useful tool to assist in Sidious's goals and aspirations. There's not evidence to support that Sidious actually 'cares' about anyone other than himself.
     
  4. Stuey

    Stuey Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 30, 2002
    i think rather than love, it would have been more like the pride of a craftsman in whatever he labours a long time to produce.

    when Maul died then Sidious would just have to start over and train a better apprentice
     
  5. Sith-Jedi-Master

    Sith-Jedi-Master Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Nov 9, 2004
    Well he trained him from birth and he was he apprentice...

    So yeah i think there was a bond there...but nothing in the father and son...sidious used him more like a pawn in a chess game to get to his goal.
     
  6. MANDALORIAN

    MANDALORIAN Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 15, 1999

    Exactly.

     
  7. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 31, 2003
    "We are indebted to your bravery, Obi Wan Kenobi"

    I think Sidious definitely had a bond with Maul, whether that was built on love - i don't think so, more pride (as has been mentioned) and perhaps even fatherly expectations/admirations, but not fatherly love.

    He definitely repays his debt to Obi Wan by turning Anakin though.

    - O_F
     
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  8. Darth_Ramsis

    Darth_Ramsis Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Mar 1, 2005
    Love is a bold word to describe their relationship. They had a working relationship. Darth Maul was Sidious' weapon and an extension of his will. I would agree that Darth Maul was a source of pride for Sidious and that it pained him to lose him but only in the sense that Maul partially failed in his duty by only killing Qui-Gon Jinn. But Sidious never shed a tear for Darth Maul. In the end, Maul would have come after Sidious for control and the title of Dark Lord of the Sith. It more than obvious that Sidious had already put his back up plans in motion in the event that Darth Maul failed him. So no, Sidious didn't love Maul as father to son, teacher to student, but loved him as one would love their car or another possession.
     
  9. LordBlack

    LordBlack Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Mar 8, 2005
    True Sith dont love.
     
  10. darthYENIK

    darthYENIK Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 3, 2003
    Maybe sidious forsaw darth maul's demise, and qui-gon taking anakin as his apprentice. And figured, it was a fair trade off. Cause who knows what would have happened if qui-gon lived to teach anakin.

    Anyway back on topic. I figure he saw Maul as a pawn in a chess game. You could keep him to protect the king, but their true purpose is to die in the end.
     
  11. Soloman66

    Soloman66 Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 8, 2005
    Love is a strong word. The Sith have feelings - that is what gets them in trouble - lures them to the dark side. However, Sidious had to know that his apprentice would have trouble defeating both Jedi. Remember that his ultimate goal at the time was to create dissention in the galaxy - governments, jedi, etc.
     
  12. DarthVoltaire

    DarthVoltaire Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 10, 2005
    No, Sith do not love anything. They only hate.
     
  13. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 7, 2004
    I wouldn't say that he loved him, or that he was heartbroken by Maul's death. However, I'm sure that he felt something akin to loss. Even if he is pure evil, you don't train someone in a one-on-one relationship from birth without developing some sort of bond with them. It would be like teaching your only son to be an assassin from birth, his only goal in life to kill your own enemies. No matter how much you detached yourself, his death would effect you, even if you saw it as no more than a wasted investement in time and knowledge. The craftsmanship analogy was good, kinda like somebody burning down your handmade log cabin or stealing a car you spent years personally modifying. You can replace it, but it takes time to grow into the new one.
     
  14. black_saber

    black_saber Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 4, 2002
    No Sidious is a user. He uses people to achive what he wants and Diseres most. All sith have done that.
     
  15. DeadDooku

    DeadDooku Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 7, 2005
    Hmmm Jedi are forbidden to have attachments as well, yet the bond of master to apprentice is very strong. Vader DID hesitate to kill his Master in ROTJ which almost cost him his only son so that bond is powerful. I think Sidious does have feelings or attachments of some kind to Maul, Dooku, and Vader but his first order of business is to be a mean Sith so I wouldn't say he "loves" them.
     
  16. Darth_Zoo

    Darth_Zoo Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 15, 2002
    I don't think so.

    In RotJ he wasn't even seem interested in looking sad that Vader was getting is bum beat down by Luke. He sat there and laughed at the whole thing.

    Sidious is a cruel and hateful man. He probably had pride towards Maul but definetly not love.
     
  17. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    He was probably proud of the killing machine he had produced but, other than as his most trusted tool I don't think he had any feelings for Maul.
     
  18. SKIMBLESHANKS

    SKIMBLESHANKS Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Apr 1, 2005
    Uhhh Darth Maul was Sidious adopted son... So yeah I guess.
     
  19. Ben_Watson

    Ben_Watson Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Oct 11, 2004
    I wouldn't think so, though we can't count Anakin on Sith feelings because he's not normal to either Jedi or Sith.
     
  20. DarthSuicide

    DarthSuicide Jedi Youngling

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    Oct 13, 2004
    I've always got the impression that Sidious did in his own kinda way love Darth Maul.

    On the other hand ,he felt nothing for Dooku and Vader.
     
  21. Adm_Thrawn

    Adm_Thrawn Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 19, 2004
    Sidious had no illusions about Maul.

    He was a tool, nothing more.

    He didn't love any of his apprentices.

    He saw all of them as a means to an end.

    Again, nothing more.
     
  22. Master_Trance

    Master_Trance Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 15, 2005
    Of course he didn't Maul was just used once he dided Sidious got a new one and it was reapeted I feel no Sith Lord loves he only cares for himself
     
  23. Adm_Thrawn

    Adm_Thrawn Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 19, 2004
    Excatly.

    When Maul was cut down on Naboo, Sidious shrugged his shoulders, and got a new one.
     
  24. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Aug 31, 2000
    If Sidious loved Maul, then it was a sick and twisted love. Sick and twisted in the way of taking someone you raised from an infant to live in the dark side to be a highly trained killing machine. Speaking of Maul, when they showed during the Naboo battle, it would have been awesome if the naboo troops opened fire on him and he quickly finished them off with some saber action.
     
  25. seventyard

    seventyard Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 20, 2003
    One thing that's interesting about Sidious' successive apprentices is the increasingly decreasing amount of effort he's willing to put forward. Maul, he trained from youth. Dooku was already a jedi and only needed to be turned to the dark side. Anakin is clearly already powerful and is even already leaning Sithward - all he needs is a slight nudge (whatever that nudge may turn out to be).

    Here's an interesting follow up to the original question: did he really intend Dooku to be his Varsity apprentice or just a place-holder until he could turn Anakin, whose power he sensed at the end of Episode I?
     
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