PT Did Dooku still consider himself a Jedi ?

Since:

1.Dooku was always calm in Episodes 2 and 3. A Jedi attribute.

2.Dooku never killed any Jedis directly in the movies.(And he could easily kill Obi Wan and Anakin before Yoda's arrival. When he cut off Anakin's arm he didn't enjoy doing that unlike the other Siths that enjoy killing their opponents.)

3.When he met Palpatine in Coruscant he began with "The Force is with Us..." instead of "The Dark Side is with us..."

4.Unlike the other Siths, he had normal eyes.

5.And he appreciated Obi Wan much more than Anakin and even tried to turn Obi Wan to his side.(Since Obi Wan was a better Jedi than Anakin.)

Did he consider himself a Non-Corrupted jedi ?

 

Dooku most likely viewed himself as an island (to himself). He had a maverick sense to him, which is fitting as Qui-Gon was a maverick himself.

Dooku, regardless of how he presented himself as the nobility and how he told Obi-Wan the truth behind the Senate, was a tried and true Sith. Since he is not as evil as Darth Sidious or vicious as Darth Maul, Dooku would fall amongst the Neutral Evil category.

Dooku is definitely an interesting character, as it shows tempting the Dark Side is. Dooku, like Anakin was unsatisfied with the Jedi Order, and went into the arms of the Dark Side. They did not have the willpower to act like Ahsoka, and just exist as a ex-Jedi. Dooku and Anakin felt they were being held back, and realized the mysterious and freewheeling ways of the Dark Side would not restrict them from their agenda or goals.

People have considered Dooku more of a Dark Jedi, which is a fair assumption at face value. He may have been a Dark Jedi, but he was also fiercely committed to the Sith cause. Just because he was willing to do away with Darth Sidious does not make any more heroic, as Sith have a penchant for betraying each other.

I will say this though, Dooku being referred as mysterious in the Episode II opening crawl is a nice touch. As even to this day, we personally do not know of Dooku's inner feelings or what he would do if Sidious was out of the picture. He had a tremendous amount of foresight, and with that could have done some good.

 

Nice Belloq av!
As for the question no. He is waging war against the Jedi. The droid army are killing hundreds of Jedi. He is also working for Palpatine. Does he not intend to kill Anakin and Obi Wan in ROTS?

 

Thanks. It's a worthless avatar. Ten credits from a search engine founded in 1997. But I take it, I bury it in the sand for a thousand years, it becomes priceless!

 

I remember that Dooku lost his trust in the jedi order due to this that the jedi council agreed to help a corrupted governor in wiping out the Mandalorians being led by Jango Fett(Whom were hired by that Governor to kill his enemies) which resulted in lots of Jedis getting killed.

 

I believe Dooku was someone who had embraced evil, while believing that he was not evil. I suspect Palpatine had harbored a similar view, but in a different way.

 

If I was a gambling man, I would bet that the only title Dooku worries about is COUNT. He probably views both the Jedi and the Sith as beneath him. They are merely stepping stones to more power.

 

Every Sith lord is calm, that's also part of their training. If they can't control their emotions then they couldn't control their power and they couldn't defeat the Jedi, who were completely calm and in control of their senses. The difference between the Jedi and the Sith is the Sith knows how to use their anger and their hate, that's a different thing than not being calm.

There is no difference between giving order to his droid army to kill the Jedi, or directly killing a Jedi.

So did Vader in OT. ''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''

He had Sith eyes from time to time.



In this Clone Wars episode, not always but when he used Force lightning.

Because Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon's Jedi apprentice, and Qui-Gon was his Jedi apprentice, and they had a connection through Qui-Gon. He had no connection with Anakin.

No, he was Darth Sidious's apprentice Darth Tyranus, he knows that he was a Sith Lord just like once Darth Maul was. The only difference is that Palpatine always planned to replace Dooku with Anakin since TPM, so Dooku was a placeholder Sith Lord for Anakin, while Darth Maul was a loss for Sidious since he never thought that he would need a new Sith apprentice at the time and he didn't think he would need to turn the other Jedi to the dark side until Maul's ''seemingly'' death. Then he realized Anakin Skywalker's huge potential in the Force, but he didn't have any time to train another Sith apprentice, so he let inexperienced Obi-Wan to train Anakin, until Anakin grows powerful enough to thwart Dooku and become the new Sith Lord.

 

He definitely did not consider himself part of the order any more. He thought of himself as above it and now more powerful than even master Yoda. It would have been interesting to see him and Sifo Dyas just be rogue former council members who see the impending war and leave the Jedi to start their clones/Seperstist. Had Dooku used his green saber in AOTC while asking Obi Wan to destroy the Sith wouldnt that grab your attention and make you wonder if he is doing the right thing? Once TCW are released then all bets are off as he is shown as a true Sith villian. But I would love to see him as a Jedi on a standalone movie teaching a younger Qui Gon.

 

He wanted to change the Jedi Order in the EU

 

I'll go along with that one. I'm not really upon the whole of the old EU, but he probably considered himself the first of a new, better group of Jedi. An Order far beyond such limited concepts as "light" or "dark", embracing power to change the Republic and, perhaps, the galaxy as a whole for what he saw as a superior vision. Actually, his ambitions probably weren't too far removed from the ones Ani had: I'll make things right for everybody, because I can.
But, it seems Palpatine had a different notion in mind...

 

Paraphrasing here "My Jedi powers are far greater than yours..." Dooku in AOTC's

Hmmm

 

yes but remember about him saying that....He never revealed his Sith name to the Jedi (although they did hear the name Tyranus elsewhere) He wasn't coming right out and saying "i've joined the dark side.
obviously he did not consider himself a Jedi , because he was one of the 20 who left the Order.

 

Definitely not. His Sith-like actions in TCW really say otherwise.

 

Jedi powers is a term for force powers in general, not just members of the Jedi order. Like Qui-Gon saying Anakin has a “Jedi trait”

Sidious and Maul wouldn’t refer to their force skills as Jedi powers, but Dooku is saying he’s a more experienced (former) Jedi and has stronger force powers

 

No, but I think it's interesting how he says that he and Obi-Wan will destroy the Sith together. He is definitely a Sith, but a more independent one than say Maul, who is nothing but a humble servant. He also doesn't wear Sith robes and continues to go by "Count Dooku".

 

Dooku is not independent, thats clear even in the films and much moreso in TCW.

Maul was already powerful in the Dark Side when Sidious came across him on Dathomir, since he was born to Mother Talzin and from a Dark Side empowered planet and culture. Dooku fell to the Dark Side without Palpatine, but he became subservient to the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith once he became the new Sith Apprentice.

Sith Apprentices are servants to the Sith Master, like Jedi Apprentices are servants to the Jedi Master but all serve the Jedi Council. The Sith Master kinda takes the place of the Jedi Council. Dooku and Vader are also "humble" to Sidious in the films . But they all(Maul, Tyranus and Vader)desired to overthrow him since that is the Sith way.

Only differences between Maul and Tyranus, was that Dooku was a former Jedi and the age differene. Dooku's attire was in part a public disguise, that he was a former Jedi and Count of Serreno and a kinda of military commander serving the Separatist cause. Very few knew he was Darth Tyranus, and the Jedi only put that together very late in the war and towards the end. They were also unsure whether Dooku was the Sith Apprentice or Sith Master.

In the EU, Dooku wanted to replace the Jedi Order with the Dark Acolytes, that was encouraged by Sidious and selling point. Dooku would lead a new Dark Jedi Order essentially. This would continue long after Dooku's death with all of the Emperor's Hands , Inquisitors and Dark Side Elite types, but there was only one true absolute ruler, that was Sidious who wanted to rule immortally. His Sith Apprentices were nothing more than bodyguards and enforcers and there to take the first shot in the EU and to large extent this remains true in neo-canon.

Neo-Canon however has Maul as seeking to supplant the master long before TPM/TCW and Sidious admiring that since that is the Sith way. Sidious may want to rule immortally but he's still bound to the Sith tradition and as Sith Master, he still needed carry forward the tradition passed to him. With Maul that was the case, to lesser extent Vader but and even lesser extent Tyranus whom was always 2nd hand substitute and basically referred to as disposable missile. Maul and Vader were true loses, and he never really recovered or rebounded from it, nor his own mistakes . Sidiosu recovers Vader cause he failed to do so with Maul and instead was stuck with Tyranus. And Tyranus still needed types like Ventress and Grievous to do much of his field work for him.

Maul falling on Naboo was not part of his plan, and neither was Vader falling on Mustafar , and neither was Sidious getting almost killed by his own lightning the first time around. If Maul remained Sith Apprentice and all went according the original plan a guy like Dooku would've been essentially been an Inquisitor type in the New Order. Sooner or late if the Sith Apprentice wants to take over, they have to strike like Sidious did to Plaguis as he slept. But even a Sith Apprentice could be replaced by a potential strong enough suitor, especially if they succeed in killing the Sith Apprentice. That is the Sith way. The Apprentice has to remain always strong enough to survive and win against any such test. The Master has to look( or create)various other candidates should the Apprentice fail or fall.

Now if things went differently in galactic history, basically either the Jedi would've gotten to Dathomir and found Maul and he would've become a Jedi powerful enough to destroy the rising Sith. Or Talzin and her son Maul( and possibly also Ventress) would carved out an Dark Side Empire independent of the Sith's plan. Since Talzin also desired galactic conquest earlier on. Dooku if he did not fall in league with the Sith, but remained a chosen by the Sith or Dark Side to become what he believed to be the Chosen One , he too could've been a rival to the Sith of Bane regaining power. But Sidious killed Plaguis and took his place at some point prior to TPM, he got to Dathomir and betrayed his ally Talzin and stole her son to raise as his Sith Apprentice thus eliminated at that point two potential rivals, and Dooku would pledge himself to Darth Sidious and his Sith Order which eliminated that rival. Its probably worse for Dooku and Anakin since they pledged themselves into bondage to an abusive and sadistic relationship to an unscrupulous mass murderer while Maul didn't have a choice he was kidnapped.

 

You mean he is the only who... COUNTS?

 

Does anyone else think that having Dooku as a "Lost Jedi" during thr PT would've worked better? I always believe him using his blue saber having visions of Sifo Dyas and Qui Gon days, then trying to warn the Jedi in AOTC would've worked amazingly better. Then in TCW he would lead the Seperatist as a lost Jedi and by ROTS your stunned to find out he was right about the Senate.

 

Interesting, that could have worked.

I wish we got more of his perspective in ROTS, the novelisation scene with Sidious just before fighting Anakin and Obi-Wan was so much more fleshed out.

 

"welcome home Lord Tyranus...you have done well"

"I have good news...wait? what? I am a Jedi, like Yoda before me"

"oh"

"why did you just call me Lord Tyranus..."

"forget it, I just-"

"no I won't just 'forget it'"

so, I think the answer is no...he did not consider himself a Jedi anymore.

 

I have thought about something like that and it could work.

Have Dooku in ep I and argue against the Jedi serving an obviously corrupt senate. That they should withdraw their support and become an independent force for good in the galaxy.
At the end, he leaves the Jedi order and few other Jedi go with him.
He even asks Obi-Wan to come with him, out of respect for Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan admires Dooku but feels he is wrong to leave, that the Jedi can do more good with the senate than without.

Then in ep II, Dooku leads the separatists and they are mostly smaller systems that are fed up with the senate being in the pocket of the TF and other big companies. So they get clones to fight for them as the Republic could call on the armies and the TF and co. So neither side wants a war, the seps just want to leave in peace but arm themselves in case the Republic tries to force them. They have seen what the TF did to Naboo. The Jedi and the good people in the senate try to calm everyone down.
But Sidious have people in with the seps, not Dooku, and they cause an incident that starts the war.
Both sides sees the other as the aggressor but now blood has been spilled and the fight is on.

Then in ep III, Dooku has found out that Palpatine is a Sith and how he has been used. And he makes a desperate attack on Coruscant to kill him. But Anakin and Obi-Wan fight him. Dooku tries to explain but they don't believe him.
And Dooku is killed.

This way, the phrase "There are heroes on both sides" could have some weight.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

No. Dooku considered himself a Count and a Sith Lord, hence Palpatine calls him “Lord Tyranus” in AOTC.