PT Did Lucas regret having revealed that The Emperor was Senator Palpatine before making the prequels?

In the DVD commentaries for TPM and AOTC, Lucas refers to Sidious as being the The Emperor and refers to Palpatine as if he’s a separate character with no connection to the original trilogy. Did Lucas regret having revealed in the original trilogy era that The Emperor was Senator/President Palpatine and wish that he could make Palpatine seem like a good guy until ROTS?

 

In the original trilogy films, it wasn't explicitly revealed that the Emperor was Senator/President Palpatine. In fact, his last name wasn't revealed. Only the novelizations mentioned that (and the original ANH novelization made it sound like he was manipulated/merely out of touch).

 

I dunno, Lucas also included this shot in the first film of the trilogy:


"Always two there are, no more, no less."

"But which was destroyed? The master or the apprentice?"

Cue long obvious shot of Palpatine looking vaguely malevolent whilst sinister music plays Additionally the audience can also see that the balcony Sidious and Maul have their conversation on is the same as attached to Palpatine's apartment. Not to mention the fact that Sidious and Palpatine are played by the same person, have a similar voice, and share an obvious chin

It was always a solvable mystery in TPM, let alone AOTC and ROTS. The identity and motivations of Sidious are right there if anyone wants to join the dots together.

 

Oh, I know there were hints in the prequel trilogy. Even a couple of lines said by Palpatine and Dooku in AOTC mirror each other: Palpatine proclaiming Anakin's greatness and Dooku saying almost the exact same line (about himself) to Yoda.

But nothing explicit in the original trilogy.

 

You know, I've always wondered how the revelation is meant to play out. I mean, for a first time viewer, when do you think it's "obvious" that Palpatine is Sidious?
It's an interesting question, because there isn't a clear "big reveal" moment. The shot at the funeral is revealing, but I don't think it's meant to be THE moment, nor do I think it's that obvious for a 12 year old kid. Is the viewer meant to be in the dark until it's revealed in Episode III? On the other hand, the "revelation" in Sith is rather underplayed ("you're the Sith Lord!"), so it doesn't seem that it's meant to work as a huge twist.
So, within the movies (and for a viewer who starts watching the Saga in order), when do you think it's revealed that Palpatine is Sidious?

 

For someone who knows nothing about Star Wars watching the movies in the order they take place, Palpatine activating his red lightsaber is probably supposed to be the confirmation moment. A friend thought Palpatine was innocent before that.

 

I first watched the saga in the order of TPM, AOTC, the OT and then ROTS due to not having access to ROTS straight away. It wasn't obvious to me as a kid that Palpatine was the bad guy until I saw ROTJ and then it clicked for me.

I think that the reveal scene for the audience in a first time chronological watch would probably be the part in ROTS where Sidious tells Grievous that soon he will have a new apprentice. It pretty much tells viewers who the Sith Lord is without directly saying it.

 

Interestingly, this Anthony Daniels-hosted video shows The Emperor in ROTJ when talking about “Darth Sidious”:

What was your thought process when you saw ROTJ? Was it, “Sidious has Palpatine’s bodyguards, therefore Sidious must be Palpatine”?

How does the “new Apprentice” line reveal anything about who Sidious/The Emperor is under the hood?

 

Honestly I didn't even notice Palpatine's guards were in AOTC for way too many years.

I think it was because I recognised his voice and that Palpatine was the only significant non Jedi other than Padme that had interacted with Anakin in those two films that gave it away for me.

ROTS makes it pretty clear that Palpatine is not the good person he's made out to be when he orders Anakin to kill Dooku.

So when he says in the Sidious persona "Soon I will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful.", I don't see how anyone could miss that it's Anakin he's talking about and given that again Palpatine is the only one to interact with him, it makes things pretty clear.

When/how did you first figure out who he was?

 

I think if you having watched the OT first it was kinda obvious. That, or seeing Ian Mcdiarmid was in ROTJ as the Emperor, and then seeing he is in TPM playing Palpatine...

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I think Lucas just wanted to show how Palpy was plotting through all this.. How smart the guy actually was and how well he could blend in without being sussed out by the Jedi etc.

This is also done through the Clone Wars, we see Palpy showcasing his evil intents behind the scenes without giving himself away. Even goes off to do sith lord duties during these times.

 

From reading Darth Vader’s wikipedia article before I saw any of the movies.

 

I think Lucas respected his audience enough not to try and play games with them and I don't think he was much interested in playing whodunit with everything he had to develop and payoff. It's like the "Ben is Glory" thing in Buffy The Vampire Slayer. The audience knows, but the characters (some of them) don't until the finale.

 

As a kid who watched the prequels first (My parents were evil) I had no idea he was a bad guy until revenge of the Sith when I saw him battle Mace Windu.I was also 6 at the time sooo

 

Well, fans knew the Emperor was Palpatine way back from the ANH novelization. However, Palpatine was originally a paranoid Richard Nixon-type politician, not an evil master of the Dark Side. So, we knew part of the truth, but there was still some mystery. This led to the whole "Palpatine's clone" theory that made the rounds before ROTS made things clear.

 

I honestly don't understand all this confusion and doubts. To me it was clear as early as 1978 that Senator Palpatine = the Emperor = Darth Sidious (in the prequels). Seriously, are there any SW fans who grew up with the original movie who haven't read the ANH novelization? The name Palpatine appears even in the prologue. Could it have been any more obvious? So even if his role and character was changed some, it should have been 100% clear that "Senator Palpatine" would be the future Emperor. I thought it was common knowledge. Then TPM came out, and surprise...... the same actor who played the evil Emperor in ROTJ is back to play Senator Palpatine!! What a coincidence! And was anyone really fooled by that hood and cloak that the same guy was any other than "Lord Sidious"?? I'm stunned that anyone who was even a casual fan of the franchise didn't make that connection early on.

 

I personally got a kick out of the one Episode I magazine that came out before the movie did that had a ton of pictures in it, and one was of the 2 Sith Lords meeting with Gunray and Rune on the droid control ship, and the tagline said something like :

"Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious ( Ian McDiarmid) and his apprentice Darth Maul (Ray Park) meet with their Neimodian co-conspirators."

 

Today's audiences are increasingly ignorant about the history & structure of classical Western literature ("how are these dead white males relevant to us?"), so I'm not surprised if some people are baffled by George Lucas' deliberate use of dramatic irony.

 

I honestly don't care. I don't see the need to make this a "surprise". I'm not being hostile or anything. But I enjoyed Palpatine's arc in the PT too much to even think about this.

 

If Lucas didn’t want fans to recognize “Darth Sidious” as “The Emperor”, he wouldn’t have shown any of Sidious’s face nor would he have allowed Sidious’s voice to be heard nor would he have referred to Sidious and Emperor as the same character in the TPM and AOTC commentaries.

 

I still remember when people thought Palpatine & Darth Sidious were 2 different people...

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You mean they're not 2 different people?!

 

Depends, back in the ANH novelization, we'd already knew that Palpatine is a sith lord,,,

 

Actually no - all we knew in that was that a guy called Palpatine declared himself Emperor. If anything, the novelization paints him as a puppet controlled by his own underlings - which TESB basically retcons.

 

I don't think it was really possible to hide the fact from hardcore fans. I don't think he really tried. But for casual fans (remember that the name Palpatine is NEVER mentioned in the OT), it could be a surprise. And besides, hardcore fans always like to think elaborate theories, so there was a lot of people who believed that either Palpatine or Sidious was a clone, or that one would kill the other....

Anyway, it was wise not to confirm how would it play out, and let fans speculate.

As I said before, I think Lucas was more concerned about future audiences watching the Saga in order. That's why I think it's more fascinating to wonder when you are "supposed" to know the truth.