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Lit Did Luke's "new canon" Jedi allow healthy attachments, marriage, family, children, etc.?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 4, 2020
    Apparently not at the very beginning. I can't imagine Luke denies Ben contact with his parents, though. Maybe Shadow of the Sith will answer this in more detail.
     
  2. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Well Bloodline tells us that Kylo hadn't had much if any contact with his parents since going with Luke (the letter Leia writes at the end is the first in a long while) and even Luke hasn't seen much of Leia or Han.

    It appears that no attachment is a thing in Lukes order as well.
     
  3. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 4, 2020
    Can you find the quote for that? Bloodline tends to be only half-remembered, and I doubt the lack of communication lasted thirteen years.

    From what I've been able to find, it's very vague on anything relating to Ben. Understandably.
    To me, "a while" would not be longer than a few months.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  4. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    I take it as longer, years at least. But no I don't have a quote i listened to it on audio book a while (couple years) ago.
     
  5. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 4, 2020
    Yeah, what people think was said in Bloodline is rarely actually there. It's an important book that I don't think many have re-read since it came out.
     
  6. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    I find the choices in the last episode extremely, extremely frustrating. Attachment, in this context, should not be understood to be synonymous with "a relationship with another person" and every time a writer interprets it that way the work suffers.
     
  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I'll put the George Lucas's thoughts on attachment vlog here as well because i think it's interesting

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2022
  8. AvarandElzarsittininatree

    AvarandElzarsittininatree Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Lol I do find it funny that in Lucas's mind Jedi were allowed to have one night stands but weren't allowed to have a gf/bf.
     
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  9. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Thanks! This is really useful. I think it's a mistake for Lucas to use "greed" for something the spiritual tradition more commonly calls "clinging," because it makes it seem like Anakin wanting his mom to live is horrible somehow lol.
     
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  10. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Grogu should counter to Luke that he is too attached to old dogma and see how he reacts to that! Then he should give Luke a choice: Train him and reform the Jedi for the next 1000 years to come, or watch him leave and see Mandalore made great again!
     
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  11. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    And then come back and see if Rey is better ;p
     
  12. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Bet Luke was just angry in TLJ because he didn't even get to the part about the choice and attachement with her before she Force skyped with Kylo.
     
  13. TheGhostOfZero

    TheGhostOfZero Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 5, 2016
    I feel people get really confused regarding topics like "why can't the Jedi have attachments?", "why can't a Jedi use the dark side and the light?", "why is balance not equal Sith and Jedi?", etc. when it's not all that complex.

    In Star Wars, the Jedi are pretty much the de facto "ideal hero", and by their code, are sworn to protect the common people. To achieve this, one of the teachings of the Jedi is to not get hung up on individual persons, and show unconditional love (compassion) to everyone.

    Having attachments isn't a bad thing for an average person, but the Jedi (having been trained to use great power responsibly) can't have these things because of the potential for them to ignore the call of defending the greater good, or doing something unjustly like seeking retribution and vengeance when their loved ones are harmed or endangered.

    That's not the Jedi way, and much like the paladin class in RPGs, it seems to be meant to be an extreme specialized occupation. It's important to note that being a Jedi is a choice, and that there are other paths to bettering yourself and the world around you besides becoming one.

    Just because the PT-era Jedi Order had done literally everything wrong with their special case Chosen One, and were a perfect storm match made in hell after said Chosen One lost his mother and fell for Padme, doesn't mean the Jedi way is inherently broken.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  14. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Qui Gon is the ideal Jedi, the PT order not at all. even #Lucas said as much. hence it being wrong with its dogma and no attachement rule as that is what saved Vader and won ROTJ. TESB has Lukes attachement to his friends and shows how he cannot help them regardless of trying. ROTJ shows how attachement though can also heal and redeem. Yoda and Kenobi were wrong, sending him on a kill Vader and the Emperor mission. VERY wrong
     
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  15. TheGhostOfZero

    TheGhostOfZero Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 5, 2016
    This is obvious, if it's in reply to what I've said. The Jedi of the prequels had many problems such as their involvement in politics, as well as their shift from peacekeepers to war generals. However, the no attachments rule predates the PT-era Jedi Order, going by what's shown in the High Republic era (though I haven't read The Rising Storm yet). Qui-Gon wasn't against the no attachments rule either, but he was flexible in dictating when something mattered and when it didn't. It's hard to discern how dangerous attachments are considering Anakin's attachment issues is both what doomed and what saved the Jedi.

    To be fair, I don't think Luke would enforce a heavy "no attachments" rule, but considering we do know that his academy gets destroyed anyway, it's probably a no win scenario even if he didn't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
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  16. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    I think the Jedi would probably recommend normal people *strive* for nonattachment, but in the sense that it means possessive clinging to impermanent things not just "caring about people." The issue is Jedi aren't just normal people, they're all monks - I wonder if the Church of the Force are basically space buddhists.
    This is only half true, as the movies present it - it's a choice, but you're brought up within the order, not knowing anything else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 15, 2010
    -snip not a spoiler thread-
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
  18. PimpBacca

    PimpBacca Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 4, 2015
    To be fair this is what I think will end up happening, he’ll leave have his adventures with Din and then probably rejoin the Jedi under Rey. I presume she will end up dropping the attachment rule.
     
  19. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 27, 2020
    To be fair they do teach them about the rest of the galaxy and by extension all the other roles they could have.

    They might introduce that to them in their general education but i'm not sure about that, but all Jedi have a good understanding of the galaxy and how it works, it stands to reason that they are at least aware of other ways to have a fulfilling life outside the Jedi, after all this was something Jedi like Quinlan Vos (Legends) thought of: leaving the order, settle down, and live a normal life with Khaleen, something which he had already decided prior to Order 66.

    That said Quinlan is one of the Jedi who had the most contact with the "outside world", being a Jedi Spy and all that.

    But the point is that the Jedi seem educated enough to know all the options, and above all to know that their life isn't the only lifestyle available.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  20. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Right but if you're trained from birth not to want that, like, what are you supposed to do?
     
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  21. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 27, 2020
    That is true, they are encouraged to stay on the Jedi Way, but it's not like they don't know what's outside of that world.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
  22. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Right - it's not so much that you choose to be Jedi, it's you can choose to leave after spending your entire life with them and it's all you have experience with and everyone you know is a Jedi.

    This is different than, say, someone seeking out the Jedi because they feel called to that life.
     
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  23. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    I like that the High Republic introduced the Jedi Wayseeker. Luke is, in a sense, that before he decides to open an academy. Ahsoka seems to be acting in that capacity post-Rebels.

    I do wonder, given Leia's choice, if it's possible Luke could have encountered and trained other Force-sensitives up to a certain point at which they chose not to be Jedi devotees.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     
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  24. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Yeah one thing I really like about the High Republic is the ways it kind of illustrates that the Jedi Order is in a sense an institution built on a religion not the religion itself, and the shape of that institution has changed a lot over the years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I never liked the idea of equating the Jedi as a religion (even if it did start in ANH with Tarkin). It's always been more clear and made more sense that most of the galaxy believes in the Force in some way, and the Jedi are able to actually use the Force in scientifically-provable ways, which scientists explained via midichlorians and training. It would be like people saying electricians are religious devotees of the Electromagnetism religion. Obviously that's not a direct parallel either, but I think it gets the point across.