PT Did Mace Windu Survive?

I said ''Jedi or Palpatine'' either way, one of them would definitely know. Palpatine didn't know anything about Luke and Leia because they were protected by the Jedi. And the Jedi didn't know a lot of things about the Sith until Order 66 because of Palpatine. These are the two sides of a coin, one of them would definitely know.

What you're suggesting that both the Jedi and Palpatine wouldn't know. That's simply not possible and it wouldn't make any sense.

A padawan only but in name. Anakin wasn't a Jedi master, but he was more powerful than %99 of the Jedi masters in the Order. Qui-Gon specifically said Obi-Wan was ready to become a Jedi knight, and Obi-Wan becomes officially a Jedi knight at the end of TPM. If Maul returned to Sidious, at that time Obi-Wan was already a Jedi knight. Plus, Sidious would already figure out how it that happened (after killing Obi-Wan's Jedi master Qui-Gon and destroying Obi-Wan's weapon, Obi-Wan still survived somehow at the end), he would know Maul was victim of his own overconfidence due to toying with his opponent. Just like Vader, who is defeated by Obi-Wan too, but Sidious still accepted Vader after his defeat, he even repaired Vader's body personally.

Maul was a ''well trained'' Sith apprentice, and Sidious never planned to replace him. Because he had no time to train another apprentice, because of this he had to change his plans and he had to turn the other Jedi knights to the dark side. Since you care about Lucas too much, Lucas himself said Sidious shouldn't put himself in a position of his apprentice get killed.

The point is, both Vader and Dooku are defeated/captured and failed about their missions several times, but nothing happened to them. Nothing would happen to Maul as well if he returned.
---------------

And I explained why it wouldn't make sense for him to not show up during 10 years, letting himself replaced by Dooku and letting Sidious to grow stronger with his plans during this 10 years. He couldn't until he received helped from his brother and his mother. He needed help, and they only find him after sometime, and after that it was too late.

You're still insisting that ''no he should've get medical attention like vader did'' if he did, then there would be no dooku and no vader, maul would still be alive as a Sith lord during episode 2 (just like Vader was after episode 3) and Sidious would never make plans to turn the other Jedi to the dark side. These events should make sense. Your suggestions makes absolutely no sense such as maul was waiting and hiding for 10 years or he was being captive in some prison, because as I said, maul would definitely won't let Kenobi go free, and he wouldn't let his master to replace him with another, or if he is planning to take down Sidious, he wouldn't let Sidious to grow stronger, he wouldn't wait. As for someone holding him in a prison, as I said, that makes no sense as well because either Jedi or Palpatine, one of them would know about that. And we know that there aren't many prison that can hold maul back, especially for 10 years? It's impossible.

The best scenario was maul survives by using the dark side, but he loses his mind, he only turns back once his brother and mother finds him and help him to regain his memories and his mind.

It doesn't work like that friend. If you are claiming someone is lying, you need a proof. Not only that wasn't just random talk during the movie, it was a plot device to turn Anakin to the dark side. That was an incredibly important information. We didn't see it because Sidious and Vader weren't as powerful as Plagueis. Just because they are not, that doesn't make it a lie or make Plagueis less powerful and not capable of saving others from dying.

A creature named Morley, probably helped Maul.

And I told you several times, if you're so concerned about the ''reality'' of a bipedal, humanoid beings in the SW-universe then you shouldn't believe in any supernatural power, which includes telekinesis, telepathy, shooting lightning, and turning into a ghost by vaporizing your entire body. There are no supernatural powers like that in our world.

It does. For one, as I said, maul is stronger than savage. And secondly, I said his enhanced durability could help him to accomplish this feat by using the Force, the main point is still using the Force, unlike others could because maul was a Sith lord.

What are you arguing here I honestly don't understand.

Sidious was the only true Sith master in this series.

Maul was Sidious's apprentice.
Dooku was Sidious's apprentice.
Vader was Sidious's apprentice.

Ventress and Opress were not Sidious's apprentices. Sidious wants them dead, because Dooku was violating the ''rule of two'' by having an apprentice on his own. As well as Maul.

Ventress and Opress never achieved the same rank of being Sidious's apprentice. They are not comparable to the ''Sith lords'' that we know. Plain and simple.

Well I agree with that, they could make a bacta tank pool where Windu falls inside of it and survives from that fall easily. But that would just make Sidious look like idiot not knowing that there are bacta tank pools around the Senate Building of Coruscant.

As I said earlier, there should be a point for bringing Windu back. They can do it, but what will be the point? I don't think Windu was underused nor he died too early. And he can't really do anything as a ''Jedi'' during the dark times of the Empire. Bring him back if you think it would make a good story, but I don't think it will.

The point of bringing Maul back was because Maul was ''well trained'' Sith apprentice, who could create his own criminal empire on his own if he returns during the Clone Wars. It was to show that how skilled and well trained Maul really was.

Savage couldn't fill that role because he wasn't trained by the true Sith Master, Darth Sidious on this series, instead he was Dooku's poorly trained assassin, just like Ventress was. It was to show the difference between a true Sith lord (Maul) and an expendable assassin of a Sith (Savage/Ventress). Savage and Ventress didn't have any knowledge about the Sith artifacts, or they weren't trained to build power bases as Maul did. All they could be a bounty hunter or an assassin. They were nothing like Maul. That's also why Maul survived something that would kill Savage and Ventress.

 

I'm going to say yes, Mace survived. Losing a limb is not deadly in the GFFA. It's more a right of passage, and for all the limbs we've seen lost in Star Wars, I think George Lucas may have a bit of a fetish. I don't know. I'm just saying. We've seen Jedi survive force lightning. It hurts like hell, but not entirely fatal.It may eventually be fatal to a Jedi, but it takes more than a jolt or two. And we've seen Jedi survive long falls. Anakin fell forever to land on Zam's ship, and even with a level of grace in landing, he was still moving at a high rate of speed which would create a hard impact not likely survivable by a non-force user. Luke survived a massive fall on Cloud City. Yes he ended up in the waste chute which ended up like a slide, but the initial impact would have been quite heavy.

Add all those things together, and I'd say Yes Mace survived, or at least by the standards set, his survival is highly highly plausible.

 

i mean, mabey, but when would he die?

 

But why have Mace survive?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

As Mace falls out the window, a bacta supply vehicle was on it's way to a medical station to for delivery. Mace falls into the bacta, initially saving his life. Keeping him alive long enough to be discovered by medical personnel upon arrival at the facility. They then nursed him back to health, where he finds the right time to escape. The Force works in mysterious ways.

I can already see it. Lol.

 

Mace survived Episode III, for sure.

 

Why not? Maul survived for no reason other than being popular, and he was cut in half. Ahsoka the same thing. And now Boba Fett is coming back after being digested by the Sarlacc. So screw it, lets bring back any and every character that died. Maybe Tarkin fell into a gravitational anomaly, and miraculously survived the Death Star. We can bring back Dooku and Jango too. Maybe Palps took their severed heads to Kamino and had new bodies cloned for them?

 

"No one's ever really gone."

 

Because we have Dragonballs, Rey. Or, in this world, Spaceballs. Or Forceballs. Hmmm...

OK, joking aside at some point we have to just accept that some characters are dead. Otherwise, with the use of time travel, we may as well render this entire franchise pointless by going back in time and killing Palpatine when he’s a child.

 

I’m sorry, but I find your notion that two “organisations” would know all and everything in an entire galaxy to be utterly absurd.

By your logic Palpatine knew Maul had survived and where he was because the Jedi didn’t. So why didn’t he seek him out if he wanted him back?

No, Obi-Wan was a Padawan in both name and rank. Qui-Gon said several times that Obi-Wan still had much to learn – only when he needed him to get out of the way so that he could take Anakin as his Padawan did he suddenly think Obi-Wan was ready. The Council also did not agree with his assessment. Only by passing the test his encounter with Maul represented was Obi-Wan deemed ready. We don’t know forhow long Obi-Wan would have remained a Padawan if Maul had not been in the picture.

It is clearly shown that Maul is the superior warrior to both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, but despite holding the advantage over Obi-Wan in the final moments he was defeated. That is weakness.

Dooku was the leader of the Seperatists and could not easily be replaced until the very end even in the face of failure. Even with his injuries Vader still had the greatest force potential in the galaxy and the Sith coveted power, and at this point in time, with most force users having been killed, there weren’t really that many new candidates available, but that doesn’t mean Palpatine would not have replaced Vader should he have come across someone with greater potential.

Even if Maul had defeated Obi-Wan and remained Palpatine’s apprentice, like Dooku, he would be discarded as soon as Anakin was ready to take his place.

By your own logic even the official Maul-scenario is impossible because according to you, since the Jedi didn’t know Maul had survived, then Palpatine did, but for some strange reason he doesn’t go and get him – which is what you argue he would definitely do.

Of course there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the combined knowledge of the Sith and the Jedi covered every little thing happening in the GFFA – quite the contrary, we see many things happening that goes under the radar of both Jedi and Sith (as they should).

As I have said, there could be plenty of reasons why he would stay hidden if he was still in his right mind (memory loss, captivity, madness, coma, and the most obvious: a severe degree of physical impairment) – and I acknowledged that him loosing his mind is a good explanation, but there are many ways in which to incorporate that into a story.

First of all, no we don’t know that. Secondly, while it might be difficult to hold Maul at full strength that was certainly not the condition he was in after facing Obi-Wan, and if they refrained from restoring him to full health then containing him would not be that much of a challenge.

You are free to your opinion, I personally find it to be poor writing, but to each to their own.

I said, it is left ambiguous, but that from what we see in the movie with the power being mentioned but never actually used, Palpatine being a known liar and manipulator, the convenient solution it presents to Anakin’s problem, and Palpatine first claiming to have the power and then suddenly not having it the moment Anakin does what he wants him to, there is far more evidence to support the interpretation that Palpatine is lying whereas there is actually none to support him telling the truth. However, that doesn’t mean that he is lying, only that from what we see it is a valid interpretation for the viewer to have.

If this supposed power was actually used in the plot then I would agree that it “was an incredibly important information”. But it wasn’t, and it isn’t the power in itself that was, as you say, a plot device, but the promise of that power.

Either way, even if Plagueis really did possess that power it is irrelevant for the discussion of Maul’s survival because Palpatine clearly states that it could only be used to save others and not oneself.

And as I’ve told you many, many times, don’t mind supernatural abilities because they can add interesting fantastical elements to a story, but even in a fantasy setting with magical powers there needs to be some kind of consistencies with the rules to maintain the suspension of disbelief. If I know the magic can allow for the characters to do certain things and what the limitations are, I’m predisposed to accept the fantasy universe.

You’re the one who tried to argue that Maul’s alien physiology enabled him to survive being cut in half, and now that I have pointed out that this would not be the case, you return to the deus ex machina that is: because “the Force”.

You like that explanation: good for you. I find it contrived and ridiculous. So let’s agree to disagree.

Fact is Palpatine wanted Ventress and Opress killed because them being trained broke the rule of two. So even if they were not his apprentices, they were being taught in the ways of the Sith and he definitely viewed them as Sith apprentices that needed to be destroyed.

And completely unnecessary.

Yes, Maul was well-trained, but everything else you ascribe to him was added to his character after TPM and there are none of these traits, knowledge and abilities that could not have been given to another character or perhaps several others – one which could have been Opress if they hadn’t decided to turn him into a dumb brute. In the TPM, Maul has no other traits than being a great warrior.

 

It's not my logic. It's a fact. Every living being is connected to the Force in the Star Wars universe. Either if they are representatives of the light side, or the dark side, they could sense if someone knows about Maul.

You said someone can hold Maul as a prisoner, and I said that's not possible, because that someone would definitely get into contact with either Jedi or Palpatine.

They didn't know about Maul, because no one holding him as a prisoner, and no one knew anything about Maul, because Maul was mentally not well and he didn't remember who he was. He was disconnected from the Force. Thus finding him was almost impossible, without the nightsister magic talisman of course.

And I didn't say Sidious would want Maul back, he wouldn't because he already discovered Anakin Skywalker at the end of Phantom Menace. What I said that Maul would return, and he wouldn't give Sidious any opportunity to replace himself with Dooku, because Dooku also got trained for a couple of years in the arts of the Sith. Why would Maul give Sidious an opportunity to replace himself with another apprentice and willingly create another opponent for himself by waiting in the shadows? He wouldn't.

Also Sidious was impressed how Maul survived his injuries by using the dark side of the Force, if he was able to return, Maul would even be more powerful.

Also holding Maul as a prisoner, without a special equipments to hold a Force user Sith lord's powers back, is nearly impossible. So no, holding Maul as a prisoner, or Maul was willingly hiding in the shadows wouldn't make sense as well.

Qui-Gon was not lying. Obi-Wan was indeed ready. He was 25 years old, an overgrown padawan. It was even weird to make him wait that long. (probably council didn't like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan suffered from that). Obi-Wan himself said he was ready. Anakin even in Episode III, was 22 years old. So Obi-Wan in Episode I was 3 years older than Anakin was in Episode III. The council also agreed that Obi-Wan was ready; ''Our own council we will keep on who is ready.'' , but they told him to wait.

If he knew Maul was strong enough to survive bisection, that's definitely not weakness, that's showing how powerful Maul with the dark side is. Sidious said; ''I am most impressed to see you have survived your injuries.'' But Sidious didn't know Maul survived at the time, thus he could think that Maul died due to his weakness, but in reality he did not know that Maul was strong enough survive his injuries.

So in a hypothetical scenario, where Maul returns to Sidious after getting cut in two, that would only impress Sidious, as it was showing that Maul is strong enough to survive bisection, and now he is even more attuned with the dark side of the Force, since he accomplished something is nearly impossible. There was no need for Maul to hide, if he didn't lose his mind.

Dooku could be easily replaced with another politician from the Separatists senate, I have no idea why some people think Dooku was that important when the Trade Federation, Techno Union and Geonosians were providing the army, not Dooku. Even someone like Grievous could put them in line. Dooku as a politician was not necessary at all. He was necessary as a Sith lord.

If Maul killed Obi-Wan, then that means there is no one left to train Anakin, because Qui-Gon is dead, and Obi-Wan can't fullfil his promise to Qui-Gon because he is dead too. Yoda made it clear that the Council doesn't want to train Anakin, it means there is no one left to train Anakin if both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan dies. So it means Anakin will not be trained. And Sidious can't train Anakin as well, because he already has Maul, and he has no time since now he has become the Chancellor. Sidious needed someone to train Anakin, either Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan, but if both of them dies, that's not going to happen.

Either Maul would train Anakin secretly, so he could use him against Sidious, or no one would train Anakin, and he would stay as a pilot at best.

I just explained why that wouldn't work;
- It's not easy to hold a well trained Force user as a prisoner, let alone for years? Impossible.
- Why would anyone, who is not in contact with both the Jedi and Palpatine, would hold Maul as a prisoner, and not tell anyone? That doesn't make sense as well. As I said, that person would tell either the Jedi or the Palpatine, who was at the head of the Republic and a Sith lord.

As I said you've no proof that he was lying, almost everyone lied at some point in the movies (includes Padme Amidala with her body double, even the Jedi and the Jedi Council tell lies to the others), it's not a proof that he lies about everything and the Force just because he was lying about other things, and thus you can't represent your own personal beliefs as proof, when they said that ability exists in the movies. It's fine you don't believe it, but that ability actually exists per TRoS Novel. Thus it's canon as well.

''Rules''? I don't see any warnings about the rules or regulations when I start to watch a science fiction / fantasy movie, they don't inform the people about the limitations of the magics and the fictional powers. Infact that's point of it, they can do it to surprise people. You gave example from Avatar, I am pretty sure everyone surprised when they see Toph started to bend the metal in addition to her earth bending powers, or when Azula shoot lightning, no one complained about the limitations of the fire bending, as well as when they see Aang started to bend energy, and when he took the Fire Lord's Fire bending powers from him, no one asked that ''but that there are rules?!''...

They said ''the dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities one consider to be unnatural'', so it's up to you to believe or not in the movie when Palpatine said this. You didn't believe it in the movie when he said this, and because you think he lies about everything, well you were wrong. Because Maul survived by using the dark side, Palpatine survived by using the dark side, it happened. And they told us before.

I never said it could be the only reason. I didn't return to anything. It's still the case. The Force is the main reason, and his alien physiology is another reason. Because you were treating him as a regular human being when he was not.

It's not good for me, it's a fact. You can find the entire Star Wars mythos ridiculous, it doesn't matter. It's a fictional universe, with fictional supernatural powers, there are no rules or regulations, and they even said that several times in the movie before;
''The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities one consider to be unnatural'' ,
''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.'' ,
''If you only knew the power of the dark side.''
etc...

If you didn't take these statements seriously, then that's your problem. They already told us.

He viewed them as weapons who can be used against him if his Sith apprentices tries to overthrow him. And he wanted to eliminate those weapons. They were definitely not ''Sith Lords'' like Maul and Dooku.

Sidious seeing them as threats, doesn't make them as Sith, that's absurd. Sidious sees many things as threat to his own power, that doesn't mean all of these threats should be Sith.

Obviously not as many people believed that Maul was only a Sith assassin, not a Sith lord. Even when Sidious himself referred Maul as a ''Lord'' in the movie. And there are even unfortunate legends books states that, thankfully the new canon fixed that problem.

Maul was well-trained to be Sidious's right hand, so he could help Sidious rule the galaxy. They didn't add anything extra, that was Maul's Sith training.

There was no decision to turn Savage into something else that he was essentially not. Savage was a dumb brute in comparison with the trained Jedi or Sith.

Savage was selected from the nightsister village, and then he got only an assassin training from Dooku for a very short time. He didn't have any decent Jedi or Sith training, of course he couldn't be more than a dumb brute. Because there was no time for a deep and long training. Talzin even states that Maul could help Savage get more powerful, because Maul could teach him.

 

In a bizarre twist of fate, Mace landed on a freighter losing his memory and ended up somewhere on the Outer Rim living the rest of his days as an ordinary citizen.

 

Mace landed on his face, going blind in one eye. He was later seen wandering around with a mysterious brief case. He winded up on a transporter that was filled with snakes. Finally, he was eaten by a shark.

 

And was later seen evacuating Cloud City holding an ice cream maker under his robotic prosthetic arm.

 

It was a long Journey from Chickasaw County, Mississippi, after a quick stopover in El Paso, Texas to play the piano.

 

Let’s just presume the Force=Magic.

With this in mind, there has to be some check to it to keep it from being stupidly OP. Otherwise it’s just the author shrugging their shoulders going, “It’s magic/the Force. I ain’t gotta explain ****.” It becomes a cheap way to explain contrivances without having to put too much thought into it.

How did Palpatine survive the explosion? The Force.

How did Maul survive his bisection? The Force.

Yes, the Force is powerful, but there has to be checks to it to raise the stakes. And to keep certain characters dead. Because now it’s all, “The galaxy’s been enslaved again? No problem, we’ll just wait for a stupidly powerful Jedi to come save our asses...again.”

 

I believe they explained how ''Sith Lords'' can survive from certain death, not some certain ''characters''. But FARK2005 doesn't see the difference between Ventress/Savage and Maul/Sidious, as if they survived that means others can survive too. They shouldn't. Because people like Ventress/Savage are not ''Sith Lords'', they aren't well trained in the arts of the Sith.

That's why it's special to the Sith Lords, and that's why their survival doesn't mean every Force user can replicate that. They specifically said Sith Lords like Sidious, Maul and Vader can do it, because they are different than the rest. That's the point of being a Sith, having powers that the others don't possess.

Which is why I believe, if Windu is going to survive, he should survive as a dark sider, not as a Jedi. But I don't think it will happen, so there is no need to slander at Maul's survival in this topic (not that you are doing that, but the discussion started from that when FARK2005 quoted me, about that quote that states both Maul and Vader used the dark side to survive, because they are powerful, but FARK2005 doesn't find Maul's survival believable but Vader's survival is believable when he got burned completely by the lava river right after losing all of his limbs)

 

Yeah, that would make sense. Palpatine even clarified it for us with his speech in the theater in Revenge of the Sith. Only the Sith could use the Force to prolong their own lives.

 

I'm quite surprised with the level of trust in Palpatine to do anything other than what serves his objectives. He tells a story for which he offers zero evidence and I'm supposed to take it as fact that the Sith can "cheat death"? I'm sorry, but I suspect that which Palpatine has led Anakin and the audience to believe - while perhaps true-ish in the most technical and "point of view" manner possible - was said with the intent to mislead, and was not offered with the intention to provide actual insight in the purest possible form. The point, to Palpatine, was to move Anakin into a head-space where Palpatine is a potential savior, specifically for the purpose of turning him against the Jedi.

Regarding Mace, I think he could be portrayed as having fallen to the dark side, sure. I don't see it as improbable that he simply survived without the need for any supernatural healing technique beyond the reach of the average Jedi.

 

I could see how Mace would be disillusioned but I'm not sure how being betrayed/almost killed by 2 dark siders would cause him to turn to the dark side.

 

Yes every living thing is connected to the force, but the idea that this then means that force users become omnipotent is you head-canon alone.

There could be many reasons why someone holding Maul prisoner would not wish to get in contact with either the Jedi or the Sith.

It doesn’t matter, there were a sentient species native to the junk planet and the comics you consider canon even have him interacting with sentient beings and sending out a distress signal that was picked up. So according to your logic, either the Jedi or the Sith knew he was alive on the junk planet but for some strange reason no one did anything.

But why wouldn’t he though? Sidious was perfectly fine with letting the Jedi train Anakin and even took on Dooku as his apprentice in the intervening years.

From what you have argued there was no reason he wouldn’t go get his apprentice.

The Citadel was a prison designed to hold Jedi, so the means to keep a force user prisoner – especially one so severely injured – certainly existed.

I never said he was, but fact remains that Qui-Gon thinks Obi-Wan still has much to learn, and he does not bring up Obi-Wan being ready for the trials until he urgently needs to free a place for Anakin.

There is nothing to indicate that being a Padawan at age 25 was unusual by the time of TPM. That the Clone Wars would later force the Jedi to knight padawan’s earlier is another matter. From what I see of Anakin in RotS, it leaves me wondering how anyone in their right mind would consider Anakin – apart from his skills – ready for knighthood.

Since there were living beings that knew about Maul, according to your logic, Sidious did know he was alive on the junk planet.

For someone who has lost his mind, he seems to be very level headed.

Actually, no he couldn’t. The CIS were leaders of their own planets and did not play along with Sidious because they wanted to achieve his goals, but because they thought it would be for the best for the star systems they represented. The leaders of the CIS all had their own agendas and goals that served their own system, and Sidious needed to ensure that not only would the leaders of the CIS remain united despite their differences, but also that their efforts served to help Sidious achieve his goals which was Dooku’s role.

With the re-emergence of the Sith, there is no way the Jedi could allow someone with Anakin’s potential to simply go out in the galaxy – especially since they are aware of the rule of two. If Obi-Wan had also died, there is no reason why they wouldn’t have found another master for him.

That you find some scenarios inconceivable does not make them impossible
- I never said it would be easy, but there is nothing to indicate it would be impossible to hold a force user prisoner indefinitely
- a mad scientist wanting to study and experiment on a force user or a zabrak. A sick, sadistic individual who would keep him as a curiosity.

I never claimed there was, I said: IT IS AMBIGUOUS – there is no certain proof it exist nor that it doesn’t, but there is far more evidence to support the interpretation that he is full of bs rather than him telling the truth.

The novel is not the movie, but as far as I remember, the supposed power is left as ambiguous as it is in the movie.

The movies never gives clear, indisputable proof that the power exists “thus you can't represent your own personal beliefs as proof”

Either way, as I said, even if the power did exist it is irrelevant for the discussion of Maul’s survival because it could not be used to save oneself.

I never said there were warnings, but rules and limitations are always being introduced or presented one way or another in the writing. One of the fundamental laws of the magic system in Fullmetal Alchemist is introduce in the very beginning. In Avatar, the intro informs of us that the magic system is based on elemental “magic” and that only the Avatar can wield more than one element.

Toph's metal bending was explained by the guru when she first did it: “metal is just earth that has been changed into a different form”, so it was natural progression.

I was surprised by the lightning – and so were others but that question has already been answered here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/20625/why-was-lightning-linked-with-firebending

I did find Aang's energy bending to be as contrived as 'the force did it' because it was introduced as a convenient solution to Aang's (very sudden) problem of not wanting to kill the Fire Lord. I think it works within the magic system, but it should have been build up and alluded to far earlier in the series.

Actually I’m not: if we agree on the premise that Sidious was telling the truth then we must also accept the truth that the power could not be used on oneself, only to save others. So, the power of Plagueis can not be used as an explanation for Maul’s survival even if it did exist.

But the way Opress is killed proves his alien physiology does not give him any sort of advantage to damage to that area of the body. So we’re left with the contrived explanation that the Force did it.

I really don’t have to take them serious because one is made by a pathological liar, the other is little more than a claim because we never see any force user perform a feat that matches the destructive power of the Death Star, and the third is more or less also a lie because we are told by Yoda that the dark side is not stronger than the light, only quicker and easier to access.

In Lucas’s works the Force was never something that made people into gods and it was shown that it could be utilized in limited ways.That poor writers later decides to disregard that and make the Force limitless so that it can be used to solve all the problems they write themselves into should, IMO, rightfully be criticised for what it is: lazy and contrived writing.

I never said they were Sith lord, but Sith apprentices. Sidious accused Dooku of secretly training Ventress as his apprentice, which he denied but Sidious sill ordered him to kill her even though she posed no threat to him. Dooku then took Opress as his secret apprentice until Opress left and became Maul’s apprentice.

I never said he saw them as threats – I think there were almost no one Sidious considered to be a threat to him – but wanted them killed because they broke the rule of two.

I’m don’t know what you’re arguing here.

Untrue, in the TPM we know nothing about Maul other him being Sidious’ apprentice, obedient, soft spoken, and a skilled fighter.

All the other attributes and character traits were given to him afterwards.

When first introduced he was shown to be more than just a dumb brute and certainly had the potential to become everything that was later given to Maul if they hadn’t decided to dumb him down instead.

Dooku was not searching for an assassin but an apprentice. And he was trained in the ways of the Sith by Dooku and later Maul. Savage was a sith apprentice.

 

- Sidious wasn't planning to replace Maul while training him, thus it's not necessary to see his other abilities, when Sidious said Maul is ''well trained''.
- Maul disrupted Amidala's plans,
''Darth Maul knew the power of ambush and of theatre. He predicted the route Amidala and her Jedi guardians would take, patiently waited to ambush them. His sudden appearance had the desired effect, unsettling the Queen, distrupting her plans, and drawing off the two Jedi.''
---Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File Remake #061 (2015)

Not well trained like Maul and Dooku. Savage and Ventress were not ''Sith Lords'', and they never become one. They have never become the apprentice of the true Sith master (Sidious).

Thus; Maul and Dooku > Savage and Ventress.

Savage was still a local in Dathomir village, and he was no different than his kins, who were just slaves of the Nightsisters. Savage didn't have the years of training that Maul had.

The Citadel yes, a well known place, it's a place that they will look after if someone is hiding a Force user.

RotJ Luke was 23 years old, and he was knighted at the end of the movie
AotC Anakin was 19 years old and he was knighted during the first year of the Clone Wars.
TPM Kenobi was older than both and he was actually better trained than both, but still he was a padawan, he was ready but they were keeping him at Qui-Gon's side for a reason that we don't know.

The point is there is an ability like saving others from death, and Plagueis was aiming for the same thing, and he could save himself if he was expecting Sidious's betrayal. Sidious however, was expecting Vader's betrayal and which is why he managed to save himself. It's relevant like it or not.

Lucas himself decided to bring Maul back, and now you are saying that others writers are not good at it because they don't understand Lucas and they bring people back from the death? This is a huge inconsistency in your arguments, if you think other writers aren't doing well by bringing dead people back, then Lucas started that by bringing Maul back. So, that's not really a poor writing thing or that's not understanding about Lucas's conception about the Force. Lucas told us Force users can survive from that injury.

What I said that Maul was seen as assassin rather than a lord by the writers that didn't understand Lucas's intention. And TCW has fixed that problem by showing more of Maul's abilities. Unfortunately, some didn't understand that only by watching the Episode I, so they needed to see more to understand about Maul. Not everyone quickly understands everything or they might choose to not understand what is obvious because of their personal likings, some needs to see more, TCW helped those people to understand what Maul was.

If you got your answers, can we end this out of topic discussion? This started when you quoted me about the difference between Vader and Maul, and I believe I answered your questions.

So should Windu return? As a dark sider, maybe. As a light sider? No.

 

I never said he did but that was always a possibility.

Retroactively adding character traits in secondary sources doesn’t change how that character is portrayed in the original source.

The Citadel is proof that technology exist to contain force users.

Once again, Luke and Anakin were knighted in extraordinary circumstances. There is nothing in the PT to suggest that being a padawan at 25 was abnormal before the clone wars began.

I will correct that for you: “The point is there is allegedly an ability like saving others from death”

The power is mentioned (by an unreliable narrator with an agenda) as existing but it is never proved to actually exist.

I never said any such thing stop putting words into my mouth. Lucas made the decision to bring Maul back but the responsibility of doing so was on the writers; they had the opportunity to make his revival believable and workable within the SW universe, but instead they went for the most lazy and contrived explanation: “the force did it”, and now the mysterious energy field can be used to help people pee and poop. Nice.

I never said it was impossible to survive such a severe injury but the circumstances needs to be right to be believable.

As I said, I like what they did with Maul’s character in TCW – it’s the explanation for his survival I find subpar.

Gladly