CT Did Obi Wan burn down the Homestead on Tatooine, killing Luke's Aunt and Uncle?

This! Your post! MIND BLOWN. The Jedi seem to manipulate as much as the Chancellor.

If they are not all destroyed, there will be civil war without end.

 

Thinking back on the temple slaughter, I also noticed something else. What Vader did was horrible in killing the younglings. BUT, my question is, what were they doing there in the first place? Aside from the stubborn insistence that Jedi be trained from birth, which is essentially the reason why there’s underage children in a ‘war zone’. Looking at the Clone Wars series, we can clearly see that Coruscant and the Jedi temple are just no longer safe for kids to be living there. There’s been theft, explosions, a hostage crisis in the senate and a full blown space battle above their heads only a few days ago. Why didn’t they move the younglings to a safer location?


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Not to mention the Jedi taking children from their families is somewhat morally questionable to say the least. With the Imperial Academy they are not forbidden to have family.

I'm not sure. I mean I got the impression the younglings at the Temple had retreated to, or been sent to the relative safety of a secured Jedi Council room. Although it only bought them some time as there were "too many of them" with regards to the intrusion/march on the Temple by Republic forces. I think the Jedi had become complacent and seen the Jedi Temple as a Fortress that none would even contemplate making a move on. You'd have thought some form of evacuation would be sent. And it's not just the younglings, but the entire Order almost (save for Jedi on missions, or during the Clone Wars, out on the battlefields) is based and located in one place.

Complacency I suppose.

I wonder how a Jedi junta led galaxy would have looked like had Windu not been stopped with regards to the Chancellor.

With regards to the Empire, they were not shown to attack without cause though. So the Homestead doesn't compute.

 

I meant more like off-planet, away from the capital, which has clearly become a major target. A secret location that’s safe and good for the kids. At least until the war is over. Even though there wasn’t any physical danger from the prior security breaches by Cad Bane and others, you’re still traumatizing them unnecessarily. Not to mention, with the age of the Ahsoka at the frontlines, they’re basically using child soldiers.

I agree that it was probably complacency on the Jedi and a false sense of invincibility.

But back to the topic at hand, I agree that there must have been something else going on with the Lars homestead incident.



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Well, technically the virtues required are the same for both Samurai and Chinese imperial guard/swordsman. It’s the morals of the “gentleman” by confucian standards. The 7 virtues of the Bushido is even written in Chinese.

But my point was, Skywalker clearly didn’t grow up in the same type of society as his wife and friends. Thus, their world views were inevitably different, and although the Jedi taught Skywalker about the force, they ignored the need to shift his gray and traumatized views of the world.

 

The Empire burned the homestead down under orders to destroy all traces. It is meant to sure how brutal the Empire is and how they did not value life, only power.

 

Speculation

 

I concur. It certainly horrified me as a child when I saw their bodies.

 

I don't think it was necessary for Obi-Wan to do the deed himself. Too much risk of running into the Imperials, plus a future-trained Luke might sense such dark thoughts in Obi-Wan's mind and that might hamper his usefulness to the Jedi.

Much simpler the way it worked out. Obi-Wan instructs Artoo to let Luke catch up to him at a specific place and time while he himself pays a visit to the Tuskens and arranges the attack so he can come and "rescue" Luke (I mean come on, Luke's unconscious and these savages don't bother to kill him? Who believes that?) Now, Luke needs repairs to his protocol droid and is in Obi-Wan's debt and can easily be kept occupied at his home for long enough to give the Imperials time to burn the homestead down. With that last link to his home gone, Luke's easy pickings for Obi-Wan - I mean, where else is he going to go, right?

Very nicely played.

In the long run, though, Luke ended up training the guy who wiped out the second Jedi Order again, so the Force balanced it all out at the end. Liars don't prosper for long.

 

Maybe for the same reasons they kidnapped Shmi instead of killing her?

 

What paint are you huffing?

 

Creating theories that recast a hero as a villain is pretty popular. Even LOTR Gandalf has had them:

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/arag_arw.htm
http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/gandolt.htm

and Obi-Wan is kind of a "Gandalf figure".

Thankfully, most creators of such theories don't take them too seriously.

 

You could be onto something here. In addition it's quite possible that Obi-Wan is Luke & Leia's real father. Isn't it canon that Obi-Wan would often sneak back to Coruscant during TCW? Do we think that as shown in RotS that was his first ever visit to see Padme at her private apartment while Anakin was out? Let's recall that Anakin suspected all of this, which fueled his anger & led to his recklessness during their duel. It's quite possible that Obi-Wan:

- Deliberately screwed up the training of Anakin. Constantly berating him & acting cold & pedantic.
- Had an affair & cuckolded Anakin with his own wife.
- While Anakin was unstable having begun to sniff out the truth he took advantage & dismembered him, leaving him for dead & stealing his lightsaber.
- Took Padme, who was the only person who could reveal his treachery & delivered her to a medical facility. Where she conveniently died taking their secrets with her, even though she was reported as medically fine. Foul play?
- Volunteered to take his own son away to watch over. Lied to him about his real father.
- Murdered Owen & Beru & framed the Empire, setting Luke on a path against Anakin.
- Confronted Anakin again but was now too old & weak to finally kill him.
- As a ghost he counseled Luke to destroy the Death Star, hoping that Anakin was on board.
- Eventually encouraged his son Luke to face & try to kill Anakin, thereby finishing the job that he wasn't quite able to. Failed yet again.

This is all true

 

This is one amusing thread.

 

Okay I'm not sure about the Padme part! I thought the love was pretty real between Padme and Anakin.

Slightly alarming if that were all true though!

I do think that the Lars Homestead incident has more to it than meets the eye. It's just not in the Empire's character and made no sense. There is no logic in their move doing that. And one wonders who really benefited from this. Luke's family was the reason he vowed to stay on Tatooine. He said it himself, there was nothing left for him anymore. Who stood to gain?

I must say it started off as a hypothesis, but the discussion seems to open up more and more questions!

 

Yes, with a machiavellian laugh and a cat on his lap...

 

I can almost imagine now Obi Wan confronting Vader on the Death Star and uttering, "You only live twice Anakin."

Darth Vader: When I left you I was but the learner. Now I.. am the Master.
Obi Wan: They told me you were dead.
Darth Vader: This is my second life.
Obi Wan (whilst stroking a cat): You only live Twice Anakin.

 

Hm, why would Vader wait for over a decade before taking any perceived revenge against the Lars?

If Vader wasn't personally overseeing the search for the stolen plans, then how (or why) would the Imperial commanders who were in charge have any knowledge of his connection to the Lars?

I don't see how the Lars could have been taken as Rebel supporters. AFAIK, nothing on-screen suggests that Tatooine was Tantive IV's end destination so why they would suspect any form of convert hand-off on a back-water planet?

If the troops traced the droids from the Jawas to the Lars, then the trail stops there. They could've searched all the droids there and found no trace of the ones they were looking for. The troops could probably also find evidence of Luke's presence (and thus absence) from the homestead. They could have tortured the Lars for information on either where were the droids, where was Luke and more importantly, if and when Luke may return?

For that's what I find most surprising. Even if the Imperial troops got overzealous in their killing of the Lars, why didn't they leave a small unit there to await for Luke's possible return or at least set up some way to signal if indeed someone returns to the homestead afterward (a probe or spy droid perhaps)? Luke pulls up to the farm and no one and nothing is around for miles. That feels kinda sloppy to me.

 

You just essentially described a weekend in Chicago. It hasn't been evacuated of families and children.

As to OP-No, no he didn't. "Rogue Imperial Unit" my ass. Unit under orders-yes. We're talking about a regime that destroyed an entire planet-you think a small band of traders and their vehicle is out of the realm of their capacity?

 

In fact, perhaps we could paraphrase Obi Wan!

Luke: I just don't understand why the Imperials would attack the Homestead!

Obi Wan: We are made to think they did. It's a random act of violence. The Empire never engages in such meaningless acts of barbarity. Look at these blast points and the footprint of the landing craft. They are too random and the prints of the landing craft are too narrow! Imperials are far more precise! Tie fighters have a wider wing array. Only Rebel pilots attack so hastily and without restraint just as they did on Eadu!

We're talking about the galactic government and the Imperial Military who clearly had reservations about the battle station. Clearly the Death Star conference demonstrates a different view point. It appears Vader and at least one other high ranking official were not for this technological terror that had been constructed. Only Tarkin and such like were for the use of this super weapon.

It doesn't really make any sense for the Imperials to attack and destroy the Homestead. The Jawas were illicit dealers in any case. But as for the Lars, we see no evidence that the Imperials did it. Nor any motivation/reasoning/logic as to why the Empire would do that.

In Mos Eisley, we clearly see Imperial troops policing against crime. We see Imperial troopers on the Tantive take prisoners and set their weapons to stun.

The Imperial mission was to retrieve the stolen plans. That is all. Apprehend any actively involved if necessary. Not to kill random moisture farmers. It is obvious that the Jawas were illicit dealers. The Lars were sold stolen property. Nothing has been shown that the Imperials kill unknowing buyers of stolen goods. The Imperials only sought the droids.

 

The Jawas took the approach that any technology found in the middle of the desert with no obvious owner, is theirs - "finders keepers".

But that's not the same thing as breaking into people's homes to steal droids. Certainly not a crime deserving of death.

The fact that the Empire put some effort into disguising their actions - even riding banthas, which are normally Sandpeople mounts, makes it clear that their killing of the Jawas, was illicit - actively murdering anyone who might have come into contact with the information in the droids, to prevent that information from being known.

The killing of the Larses is exactly the same thing - continued further. Once the Empire backtracked from the sand crawler to the Lars homestead - the Larses were doomed.

 

The Jawas took a fully functioning droid minding his own business. They actively used a stun weapon to disable R2D2. They then attached a restraining bolt to prevent him from escaping. If someone took did that to a human, would that be okay?

Who is to say that a droid working on the outer perimeter of a moisture farm outside any structure would not be stolen if we decide that that is okay?

As for the Jawa vehicle's destruction, we are not aware of their arrest. It is possible they resisted and the Imperial authorities had no choice but to defend themselves. Or that it really was the Sand People who made it look like the Imperials did it. Or any number of scenarios. We don't know for sure that the Empire did this.

The Empire also has No reason to do this. This is not their mission which is to retrieve the droids and apprehend involved Rebels. The Lars are not Rebels.

The Imperials only wanted to locate the stolen plans. If the plans have not been seen by a party, or accessed, then that party was not guilty in their view. They were only looking for the droids themselves. Imperial troops are clearly seen policing Mos Eisley. They stun Princess Leia and take prisoners aboard the Tantive IV. They aren't killing unnecessarily, or randomly engaging in acts of violence like the Tuskens. They also aren't stealing droids unlike the Jawas.

The Empire only May have tracked the droids to the Homestead. We don't know for sure. They will still looking for them in Mos Eisley. But we have no reason to believe that the Empire would just burn the Homestead down. For what reason?

The Lars didn't knowingly buy the stolen goods. Lars himself was stunned and angry at the Jawas for trying to "push" defunct droids when purchasing the droids. The Imperials would more likely have waited for Luke to collect the droids and wished them a pleasant day.

Luke himself was very keen to join the Imperial Academy at the earliest opportunity. Who stood to gain from this act of barbarity? Only the Rebels it would seem...

Perhaps we are made to think of the Empire did it. But Imperials are more precise. The column of smoke suggests a random attack. And look at these landing craft footprints. Only X-wings have such feet.

 

Luke was speeding off before Obi-Wan had had time to do more than yell "No, wait, Luke, it's too dangerous!"

 

This was all a hypothetical question based on jest. But Obi Wan was a Jedi. He didn't seem in all that much of a hurry to follow young Luke. And if Luke was important, why let him go off alone to a potentially dangerous place? Unless Obi Wan knew there was no danger. Or unless Obi Wan was innocent in all this, and the Rebels did it.

 

It's not like Obi-Wan has his own speeder. Once Luke had made his decision and started rushing off, all Obi-Wan really had the opportunity to do was yell - and yells weren't going to stop Luke.

When it comes to national security, regimes like the Empire have no qualms about killing people for what they might know, rather than for what they do know.

 

He had Force Pull...