Saga Did Palpatine ever even need Anakin or Luke?

I never really got the whole "pick an apprentice who will eventually kill you" thing myself.

 

Regarding Luke, Vader only made a suggestion. It's still Sidious's decision.
Regarding Anakin, Sidious brags to Yoda about how Vader would surpass both of them. Without the Mustafar duel, that's what would have happened.

 

I think the point of that rule was ; gathering enough power and learning enough knowledge about the Force to overthrow the Jedi and the Republic and learn about the immortality and rule the galaxy as the Dark Lords of the Sith.

Plagueis and Sidious came close to that by learning the midichlorian manipulation ability and they made their move. The plan was keeping each other alive forever by using this ability (since Plagueis couldn't save himself from dying, but only others), when Plagueis dies Sidious could resurrect him and when Sidious dies Plagueis could ressurect him as well. But as far as we know, Sidious didn't want to stay as an apprentice forever, and he secretly worked with Talzin, and then one day he killed Plagueis in his sleep, then he realized Maul's potential, and betrayed Talzin and stole Maul. We don't know what Sidious's plan and how he planned to live forever, since he needed an apprentice who is skilled enough to utilize the ability of midichlorian manipulation, did he believe he could teach that to Maul and then to Vader? And then to Luke? Or did he find a way to live forever without needing an apprentice who can use midichlorian manipulation? Not sure.

 

Thanks ! I wonder if in the next film we find out that Anakin and Rey were both conceived through the midiclorians by Palpatine.

 

I don't really think so. Look at Anakin's life and choices. Every time he seeks power, he does it only with someone else. He never does it alone. When Padme and Anakin talk about their ideal political system, even though Anakin suggests dictatorial rule, he immediately dismisses the suggestion that he personally would rule -- he dismisses it as if even the concept is absurd. Instead, he says, the ruler would be "someone wise" -- and this is exactly what we see from his behavior. Everywhere Anakin/Vader goes, he only seeks power as an assistant to someone else -- he offers it to Padme, to Obi-Wan, to Luke. In reality, he kind of gets what he wants from Palpatine -- he gets to see the action but doesn't make the head-honcho decisions. At the end of the day, in spite of his grumbling, all Vader's talk and actions show that he's not the guy to take Palpatine on himself. And that is why he never does.

 

He was Jedi Padawan at the time, and the war hadn't officially started yet. Ruling the galaxy probably sounds a little too far fetched.

Sidious tricked Anakin into attacking Windu and forced him into submission. I'm sure Anakin hates Sidious and would kill him by himself if he was powerful enough to do that.

 

Well, Sidious literally said Anakin would be more powerful than him (and Yoda) in ROTS, so.......

 

I think we can all agree that Vader is very powerful. But I think it can be argued that Yoda is right and Palpatine is wrong. Palpatine does have misplaced confidence in Vader. In terms of whether Vader is more powerful than Palpatine, I just don't really think he is. Or if he is, he doesn't really show it. Vader's attitude is submissive his entire life. He only plots insurrections in coordination with others, not independently. Palpatine was always the master in that relationship, and I think he knew that no matter how powerful Vader would become, that fact would remain the same.

 

And the context that he says it is very important too. He was about to have a life or death duel with Yoda. He tried escaping but Yoda blocked him. He then says, "You will not stop me," and explains that statement (while pulling out his lightsabre) by saying that Vader will surpass both of them. So basically what he's saying is: "I do not fear death. Even if you kill me now, my successor will fulfill my dreams."

Though I wonder, at that time Sidious had just barely started teaching Vader. If Sidious dies, how is Vader supposed to become more powerful? First off, Yoda would be after him...but I guess Sidious was confident enough in his own power that he felt that even if he died, Yoda would also die with him or at least get severely injured. But even with Yoda out of the picture, how is Vader supposed to learn more power? Did Sidious give him a pile of Sith books that he could self study from??

 

Yoda was right because he knew that Obi Wan was alive and was going to attack Vader before Vader had a chance to become skilled with the dark side.
Sidious miscalculated because he didn't know Obi Wan survived the ambush. So you can say he had misplaced confidence in the clones.

 

I think Sidious' viewed the Sith traditions, the rule of two, Maul, the Night Sisters, Dooku, Grievous and Vader as tools. Vader simply proved to be reliable enough to facilitate his - fatal - false sense of security.

 

I just don't think it's that much harder. As great as Anakin was, I think he was just as susceptible to getting gunned downed by a bunch of clones as anybody else.

 

"Pass on what you have learned" - It's not that different from the Jedi, in that the mantle is handed off to the next generation. No one lives forever, and someone's got to carry on the traditions. It's just that the Sith, by their very nature, are power-hungry, and eventually want to be the top dog calling the shots, and are willing to kill their master when the time is right. Granted, it's a little extreme...but that's the Sith for ya.

 

He's getting on a bit.
At Palps age, he probably fancies putting his feel up in the evening. Maybe stick Netflix on with a cold beer. Last thing he wants is to get his hands dirty killing people - not to mention the possibility someone could get in a lucky hit and take you out maybe when you are on the toilet. Much easier and less work to get yourself an apprentice to take out any straggling jedi.