Saga Did TFA make the OT pointless?

People often have perceive a different point in the conclusion of a certain movie from what others perceive. Those that appreciate the continuation of the characters story thirty years hence from their previous appearance clearly perceived a different point.

That's just a recognition of how and where subjective lines are sometimes drawn.

 

I also believe you're not limited to a single perception. I can even now choose to enjoy Star Wars - the film, or the OT on it's own terms, or enjoy it with the added nuances of the PT era, or eventually possibly enjoy it as a nine episode saga.

 

Right. Within Star Wars itself, I can perceive and appreciate what films were trying to do, whether I like them conceptually or in execution, or if I don't like them. Often it's necessary to adopt bespoke and not uniform perspectives on individual films in order to try and appreciate the complete saga as whole, which I do.

 

Not pointless, although to put it simply I don't think TFA feels like it exists within the same direct narrative as the OT (or PT for that matter). With pretty much zero clarification on the greater political situation of the galaxy, characters reverting to earlier incarnations (or being removed almost entirely from the film like Luke), as well as a main villain I can't take seriously at all, it's just too far a jump to see TFA as "what really happened."

Oh well. Maybe they'll release a PT to the ST someday and make the transition to TFA more palatable within a saga viewing context.

 

TFA absolutely needed to happen if we're to have the characters of Rey, Finn, Kylo etc played both those particular actors, who are all great. As well as the older ST versions of the classic characters. After TLJ & IX are released, & hopefully they'll be awesome, the "need" for TFA to have been made will grow even stronger. It's often said that the Prequels weren't needed, that they were just backstory that was largely mapped out already, but I'd disagree with that too. All of the episodes are needed.

 

At one stage, the sequel trilogy was planned after the OT finished. Then there were never going to be any more movies because the story had been told. Then they made a prequel to tell a backstory that previously wasn't considered necessary.

 

I don't think they're needed, just like I don't think they're pointless. They're just there to be liked or disliked by anyone who chooses to interact with them. Like I said earlier, I don't need the TESB and ROTJ to enjoy ANH. I don't need the PT to enjoy the OT, and I don't need the ST to enjoy the OT and or the PT. In fact the first Star Wars movie I saw was TESB and it sparked my Star Wars fandom, so I didn't even need ANH to enjoy TESB. So, by extension any new fan doesn't need the OT and the PT to enjoy TFA, or the ST as a whole. Maybe they'll find, that the OT and or PT enhances their enjoyment of the new films, or maybe they'll view them as some boring prologue better skipped entirely. Anything is possible.

 

ST? OT? PT? STOPPIT!!!

 

I can't wait till we get to episode X when we start the SST, followed by the SSST, SSSST, etc.

 

Or the first trilogy of the second volume of episodes. V2:FT. It opens in the middle, Episode IV, naturally.

Sorry to go OT there.

 

Well, I didn't actually say TFA didn't need to happen. I said what happened in TFA didn't need to happen. As in, TFA didn't need to happen the way it did.

Oh, but I'm pretty sure we are. We're Star Wars fans, within a certain age bracket that tends to go see movies.

I was within the target audience, it just failed with me. Granted, it succeeded with millions and millions of others.

There is definitely an ROTJ sequel that doesn't involve Han becoming a lowlife criminal again, Luke going into exile, and the offspring of Han and Leia turning to the dark side and murdering Han. There's definitely a sequel that doesn't involve the return of the Empire, another Death Star, etc.

Personally, I don't agree with the OP, which is why my response started with "No". I don't have a problem with the fact that evil never dies.

But TFA didn't have to be this way. There are many ways to create drama and conflict. Use your imagination, it's actually pretty easy to think of alternatives.

Again, I didn't say TFA didn't need to happen. I said what happened within it didn't need to happen.

You can have Rey and Finn and even Kylo to some extent (though certainly not fully), and the older version of the Big Three, without TFA happening the way it did.

I'm aware that you liked that it happened the way it did, but there were alternative stories.

 

I agree, there's probably someone out there that could have written a better version of TFA, for you and many others, perhaps a version that would have been considered a master piece by practically the entire fandom. However, I think we should also consider that future installments can alter the perception of the story and characters of TFA. To some it may forever be the weakest link in the ST, or perhaps an abomination, but in my view it is more of a blanket canvas than either ANH or TPM. So, my interest in seeing TLJ is, how Rian Johnson fills in the blanks. Did he use the precursor that TFA represents to create a compelling story in it's own right?

 

TLJ trailer seems to support that last sentence quite comprehensively.DrDre

 

I think the Thrawn Trilogy and Shadow Academy books were good ways of having an Imperial remnant pose a strong challenge and provide drama, tension and stakes without having the new democratic government or Jedi organization have basically failed.
Destroying or capturing a fleet early on and threatening the capital in the third part seems like better drama and stakes than destroying the (temporary) capital planet in the first film, the latter more like sensationalism.

 

To an extend, but I think the Thrawn Trilogy mostly works as a epilogue: the further adventures of Luke Skywalker, but as a continuation of the saga I believe you should either raise the stakes, or start from scratch with completely new characters.

 

I think part of the point of RotJ was that Luke, while not infallible, was pretty incredible, he had become a genuine Jedi and probably better than Yoda or Obi-Wan; he surpassed their expectations and so wouldn't make similar catastrophic mistakes in training his new set of Jedi.

 

But was he a great teacher ever in ROTJ? It's not as straightforward as that. Luke transcended his teachers expectations by not attempting what they attempted. He wasn't hindered by the fact that he is the son that the father can't kill and won't have taken away from him by Sidious either.

 

Whatever you think if TFA, you have to admit it's only the first part of an entire trilogy. So proper judgement about how it renders the OT should at the very, very least be reserved until 2020


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The origins of the ST.

"So, I took the screenplay and divided it into three stories, and rewrote the first one. As I was writing, I came up with some ideas for a film about robots, with no humans in it. When I got to working on the Wookiee, I thought of a film just about Wookiees, nothing else. So, for a time, I had a couple of odd movies with just those characters. Then, I had the other two films, which were essentially split into three parts each, two trilogies. When the smoke cleared, I said, 'This is really great. I'll do another trilogy that takes place after this.' I had three trilogies of nine films, and then another couple of odd films. Essentially, there were twelve films.

(I)…eliminated the odd movies, because they really don't have anything to do with the Star Wars saga. ... I'm just going to keep it pure. It's a nine-part saga that has a beginning, a middle and an end. It progresses over a period of about fifty or sixty years with about twenty years between trilogies, each trilogy taking about six or seven years."

--George Lucas, Prevue interview, 1980.

That's not the first instance of him talking about it, but it is one of the earliest.

 

TFA made itself pointless, not any of the previous movies.

 

Well, I don't view TFA as tearing down the OT characters. Adversity is the parent of virtue. In my opinion Han had become a cardboard cut-out in ROTJ, and I much preferred the more worn by life version of TFA, which seems more consistent to me with his characterization in ANH and TESB. Han Solo to me was allways the down to earth type character, who doesn't believe in fairy tales and happily ever after. Han is a pirate at heart, forever at sea. The same to an extend applies to Luke. Luke's struggles made the OT relatable to me, and I'm happy to see they didn't turn him into some sort of demi-God. He appears flawed and human, and I think that's what made his character work for me. ROTJ forced these iconic characters into the mold of a happy ending, and it never quite fit, as far as I'm concerned. The moment these characters stop struggling they become inert, pale shadows of their former selfs IMO. So, while ROTJ was ultimately a satisfying conclusion to the saga as a whole, with the ST I'm hoping for a continuation of the story with a little more ambiguity, and depth.

 

I think Han and Leia "going back to the one thing they were any good at" is actually a more credible future given human nature. Until TFA, their romance was the one thing that never had any major impact on the main story and felt a little too saccharine. And having their child turn into a mass murder is not only in the family blood, but also a very credible spark leading to the devolving of a storybook marriage

 

That's why in a way TESB was the perfect ending for me to their romance, with Han lowered into the carbon freezing chamber: a bittersweet ending.

 

TFA didn't make the OT pointless, it just made the legacy of the big three rather sad and disappointing.
I love TFA, but after so many viewings, I think Luke, Leia, and Han were mishandled in this film. Especially Luke Skywalker.

My main interest with the ST is to find out what is going on with Rey and Kylo; their backstory, their allegiances, their destinies.

TFA kinda ruined the big three for me.
The Thrawn Trilogy is much better, imo.