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Saga Did TFA make the OT pointless?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Weavile, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    “Apparently, the initial plan for Star Wars: Episode 7 was that Luke, over the course of that movie, would rediscover his vitality and train this new Jedi. So basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7.” The story group decided to go in a different direction for Episode VII with Han taking on the mentor role for Rey and Luke coming in at the very end of the story.
     
  2. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 20, 2015
    That would have been great. Much better than what we ended up getting, at least.
     
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  3. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Two things. First, I dont think that "summary" came from LFL or Disney, so we cant be sure it is accurate. Second, even TLJ has had great summaries written for it.....Does not make the final story/movie good or bad.

    From IMDB:

     
  4. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    The gungwoks used to be one race before the Great Plasma Ball shortage. There was a massive battle for Most Annoying Creature to settle the contest and the losers were banished to Endor and had to learn to use rocks instead.
     
  5. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    This pretty much came from the Art of the Last Jedi book.

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...he-exiled-luke-on-ach-to-idea.50047467/page-6
     
  6. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
  7. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    Not always. But Lucas has always been a good ideas man (he just needs a filter). He is also good at crafting overarching themes that connect each movie, which is something I think the ST is missing at the moment.
     
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  8. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    What do you mean? Examples?
     
  9. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    About which part?
     
  10. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    What is an example of an overarching theme that connects each Lucas movie, but which is lacking for the moment in the ST?
     
  11. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    Technology continuous conflict with nature is a big one in the PT and OT, as is the the notion that the future isn't set into stone. The ST IMO doesn't have any overarching themes that connect the films, they feel like standalone films.

    Granted, maybe the notion that you can't keep running away can be considered a theme considering Han and Luke's arcs in TFA and TLJ.
     
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  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    There is a heck of a lot of nature contrasted with technology and conflict going on in TFA and TLJ.
     
  13. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    I don't see that at all.
     
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    TFA begins on a planet where the artefacts of a cataclysmic war are discarded and at the mercy of its hostile environment. Just for starters.
     
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  15. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    I remember an interview Mark did years and years ago in the 80s where he claimed Lucas talked to him about his ideas for the ST. Mark claims that one sequel Lucas had planned would mostly be about Luke meditating on the force in some kind of out of world plain and that Mark thought audiences probably would not have liked it. If what Mark claimed back then was true, then it fits with what Chiang says.

    " Chiang said. "He always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader. So he is really struggling with that. He ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he's just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself."
     
  16. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 26, 2013
    I would say it destroyed the ending in-universe. But to me, the OT will never be pointless. It's a masterpiece of a trilogy.
     
  17. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Not the same thing, none of the Sith from the OT/PT could have been bested in lightsaber combat by an untrained girl. In that realm it's clear that the Sith were much more powerful than these Dark Jedi.
    That's a tough opinion to agree with; the PT at least had original writing. TFA was just a completely rehashed version of ANH with lots of stolen parts from the EU such as the (Starkiller Base) Galaxy Gun and (Kylo Ren) Darth Caedus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  18. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Dark Jedi or
    Special Edi ?
     
  19. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    nothing could make the OT pointless, much less a rehash simply to make money
     
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  20. ChillCaladbolg

    ChillCaladbolg Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 31, 2017
    Simply, no. Their significance has just shifted. They aren’t the end of the story anymore, they are the lead up to these movies.

    A viewer who skips the previous films loses out on much of the context and impact in these new ones, so they’re obviously not pointless.
     
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  21. Merry dog

    Merry dog Jedi Youngling

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    Feb 9, 2018
    Yes I completely agree that the force awakens made the original trilogy pointless 1. The first order is the empire in everything but name. They are tyrannical fascist regimes with tie fighters, star destroyers, Stormtroopers and a death star. Also in the original trilogy the empire was the government in power so that perfectly explains where they get so much resources manpower, and finance. But with the first order we see in the force awakens they have gained power and for some reason has enough resources and manpower to build an even bigger death star even though logically they don't have access to the resources the empire did 2. The resistance is the rebellion all over again both are small scrappy underdogs fighting against the much more powerful empire and in the film it is not explained why the rebels are still so weak 3. Han Solo and Leia failed to be parents and then abandoned Leia to go back to smuggling 4. Leia is right back to leading the rebels 5 Luke cowardly abandoned the empire galaxy including all his friends and family to sit on this island. Now I would like to address some of the points you guys have brought up " you can not have a sequals trilogy without ruining the original trilogy" no you can introduce new conflict while not making the previous films pointless. You do this by actually introducing a new conflict rather than rehashing the empire vs rebellion. Also star wars legends is a great example no it didn't say the empire was completely destroyed at the battle of yavin yes it introduced new conflict. But the new republic remained in power instead of being destroyed after only being mentioned in passing, the rebels did not regress back to the underdogs, the empire although it had a resurgence under thrawn and the reborn emperor palpatine never destroyed the government in power, Luke succeeded in restarting the Jedi order, Han and Leia remained married and at least one of their kids didn't fall to the dark side. " The empire strikes back already made a new hope pointless" that is literally a complete fallacy don't believe me . Han Solo: it would take more firepower than half the imperial Starfleet imperial officer: dangerous to your Starfleet commander not to this battle station. What do these lines from a new hope tell us? The death star didn't house every single imperial and Darth Vader still was alive so the empire strikes back did not make a new hope pointless. Now I know what a lot of you are thinking " that means it makes sense that the end of return of the Jedi doesn't mean the empire is destroyed". Like I said star wars legends didn't say the empire was immediately destroyed however in the force awakens the empire 2.0 we are told has gained power and is just as powerful as the empire for reasons that are not explained. The fact that the force awakens just rehashes the same vehicles even though it's set 30 years later is incredibly lazy. If you look at a new hope we had the y wing as well as Darth Vader tie advanced one, in empire strikes back we were introduced to the snowspeeders, rebel transports , tie bombers, in return of the Jedi we were introduced to the a wing, b wing,and tie intercepter. And all the other star wars films introduce new vehicles but the force awakens just rehashes the x wing, tie fighter, star destroyers. Now I noticed some of you guys are pointing minor cosmetic differences like different engines for the x wing and saying that makes it different. Except that logic is the same as saying this wall that is painted green is different than this wall painted pink.
     
  22. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2002
    1) The FO carved out a mini Empire in the Unknown Regions so had sufficient of resources. Also many worlds and people remained loyal to the fallen Empire and deeply desired for it to return, so they had resources channeled to them via that route too. The FO is much smaller than the Empire, but more technologically advanced.

    2) The Resistance is tiny as it doesn't have much support. The Republic and FO are not at war and the FO is not considered to be a threat.

    3) Yeah Han going back to his previous life was disappointing. I'm assuming he and Chewie went off searching for Ben after the temple massacre - and got sucked back into his old way of life, one that didn't involve Jedi and Sith.

    4) She (rightly) believed that the FO was a threat, so if the Republic wasn't going to deal with them, then she was.

    5) Luke retreated due to his failure at re-starting the Jedi Order. This was years before the galaxy ever knew about the FO. Days after the FO attacked the Republic, yes he refused the call, but changed his mind at the last minute and rekindled hope in the galaxy.

    I don't think TFA makes the OT pointless at all. It just means the story isn't over yet. At the end of ROTJ, the Sith have been destroyed and balance returned to the Force. Great, but what it didn't show us, particularly in the original version of ROTJ, was what happened to the Empire now the Emperor and Vader were dead. In the ST we learn in the opening crawl of VII that the Empire fell, but that its remnants are still wanting to continue the fight. We also learn that without the Jedi, there can be no permanent balance in the Force - and we see the consequences of that. ROTJ always seemed to wrap up the saga too quickly for me, so I'm glad the ST is here to do that - to see what's left of the Empire FINALLY vanquished, and see a new and improved Jedi Order form.
     
  23. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    The ST ruined the ending for ROTJ. It is just simply returning the franchise back to the status que of empire vs rebels first, then poorly written why after. Its all just an excuse to have rebels vs empire all over again. The OT showed the empire was largely disliked. Being banished to unknown regions means you don't know what resources, if any, are there. Being unknown, it would be wilderness with little infrastructure just to survive let alone to rebuild a large armed force with bigger ships and weapons than before. Its poor fan fiction.
     
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  24. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    It was never written that the empire v rebels conflict was over. It was written that another death star blew up, Darth Vader and the Emperor died. If that was supposed to mean that Imperialists V Rebels (or anyone else willing to stand up to them) was over, then that is poorly written.

    It would be wilderness would it? How do you know? The point of them being called unknown, is because it's not known what these regions are like. You are making a mockery of their name.
     
  25. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    [​IMG]

    [face_thinking]
     
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