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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Did Tyrannus himself know that his Master was the Chancellor?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Strilo , Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I mean we know that the Jedi did not know that Sidious was Palpatine. They did not even know that Dooku was Tyrannus for a long time. But my question is, and this may have been answered somewhere I am unaware of, did Darth Tyrannus know that his Master Sidious was also Chancellor Palpatine?
     
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  2. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    I'm trying to think if their is a canon source that explicitly says he knew but other than the "what the heck" look Dooku gives Palpatine after he orders Anakin to kill him - i'm not sure that there is 100% confirmation that he knew. I have always assumed he did though, from that look to all the planning and scheming I don't know how Dooku wouldn't have figured it out, even if Palpatine for some reason didn't tell him.
     
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  3. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Yeah I think Dooku's in on the whole scheme. The most telling point is in AOTC when he straight up tells Obi-Wan that Sidious is in control of the Senate.
     
  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Yes, of course.

    I think in the ROTS novelisation they are speaking as master and apprentice before Anakin and Obi-Wan arrive.

    I like the line "We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor" because he knows the duel is for his Master as audience to test Anakin.
    The shocked look as well, he knew he was being betrayed.
     
  5. Kururu

    Kururu Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.


    Yes, Dooku knows it.
     
  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Dooku certainly knows. The look he gives Palpatine before he dies is what tells us. Also the fact that during AOTC he straight up told Obi Wan that the other sith lord was in control of senators.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  7. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    The now Legends (not sure why that couldn't stay canon) Darth Plagueis novel also confirms this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  8. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I know people love the book, but there are several things that contradict canon. But that’s for another discussion.
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Dooku's known from the beginning. The ROTS novelization features a chapter showing Dooku's perspective on the war, while talking to Sidious about Anakin and Obi-wan. The final page of the chapter revealed that Palpatine was Sidious, and that they were in Grievous's quarters discussing things right before Anakin and Obi-wan board the turbolift.
     
  10. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Dooku would have to be incredibly stupid to think Palpatine and Sidious are two different people, remember that he may have been the only person other than perhaps Maul to have been in Palpatine's presence when he was in his supreme chancellor guise as well as being with him when he's in his Sidious guise.

    Then you have "the plan" of kidnapping Palpatine, any doubt anyone could have should be gone when he looks shocked at Palpatine telling Anakin to kill him.
     
  11. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    You don't know the powah of the dark cloak!
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Kururu

    Kururu Jedi Master star 1

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    Feb 9, 2007
    Wait a minute... so Darth Sidious is actually Clark Kent.
     
  13. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

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    Aug 10, 2001
    I knew it was stated somewhere by George that Dooku know's everything.
     
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  14. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 6, 2001
    But it seems like in the films themselves, it's left ambiguous...
     
  15. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    I'd argue that Dooku's conversation with Obi-Wan in AOTC makes it pretty explicit.

    Besides, as Sidious' apprentice and a political leader, Dooku would need to be pretty dumb to not recognize him as Palpatine (a public figure).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  16. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 10, 2016
    Maybe Dooku thought Sidious was an evil clone of Palpatine, like many fans thought when episode 1 came out.
     
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  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    They don't spend a lot of time together in the films. That's why when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill Dooku, he gives him that look of astonishment. There was also a line of dialogue that was cut where Dooku responded.

    DOOKU: "But....you promised me immunity."

    PALPATINE: "I lied."

    It was only cut as Lee felt that it would be far better if Dooku said nothing and Lucas agreed. But it is at that point that the audience is supposed to realize that something is up and only after the revelation, are they supposed to put it all together.
     
  18. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 6, 2001
    That just seems to support the idea that Dooku did not know Palpatine was Sidious...
     
  19. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 10, 2016
    If Dooku didn't know, then we have an unfortunate conclusion to make:

    Dooku is dumber than Nute Gunray.

    I'm not ready to make that assessment.
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Dooku is the apprentice of Darth Sidious. Dooku also is a major political figure. And even if he wasn't, he would know who the Chancellor is. It's literally impossible for him not to know the two are one and the same.

    Besides, this statement makes it clear that he knows it:

    "What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the dark lord of the Sith?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  21. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    :D
     
  22. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    No, it just meant that he didn't know that he was being screwed over until then. He was told that Anakin was going to fight him and if Anakin won, he would step in and stop the fight and then Dooku would "surrender" on the grounds of being pardoned for his crimes. He would claim in court that the war was not his intention, nor his fault and that he was being used. It's only when Anakin is told to execute him, that Dooku realizes that Palpatine had lied to him the whole time. Dooku wouldn't ask for immunity otherwise, if he had the upper hand at all.

    Also, remember, Lucas says that Palpatine had told him that he would stop the fight. Since only Chancellor Palpatine is present and not Darth Sidious, then how can he (Sidious) stop the fight?
     
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Honestly though, it does seem pretty far-fetched for Dooku to accept that he would be granted immunity as the leader of the secessionist movement.
     
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  24. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 6, 2001
    That statement makes it clear that Dooku knows that Sidious controls the Republic, and thus maybe controls Palpatine himself. It does not at all make it clear that Dooku knows Sidious IS Palpatine.
     
  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    I always assumed he did.
     
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