ST Did you like the way TROS retconed TLJ ?

I am not implying it's a joke. I'm implying (based on an actual understanding of the context in which the statement was made) that his statement has nothing to do with the characters or their actions.

 

Let's be honest, every SW movie has been retconning the previous once since 1980. ESB retconned ANH with Vader being Luke's father. ROTJ retconned ANH with Leia being Luke's sister. ROTS retconned ANH as Anakin never said he wanted his son to have his lightsaber, as Obiwan just took it on Mustafar. The whole Alec Guiness conversation with Luke in ANH is a TOTAL LIE. Leia does not remember her mom, as Padme died in childbirth. Owen does not remember C3PO despite owning him for 10 years.

If you watch The Original Star Wars in the 1977 context, it's a totally different movie and has a totally different theme. The 1977 theme is more about coincidences and how it can change your destiny when you are called. Leia is not related to Luke, Vader is not related to Luke/Leia, so their fates are not tied into this story but it comes together at the end. Now if you watch ANH in the context of the Saga, their fates are tied together before the movie starts and it was all a plan by Obiwan/Yoda to eventually use Luke/Leia (especially Luke) to defeat the Sith/Empire.

 

The retcons in OT and PT weren't that big imo.

If Return of The Jedi retconned TESB's "Vader is Luke's father" with "Obi Wan was Luke's real father" then it would become similar to the way that TROS did some retcons.(For example "Rey is a daughter of nobody" was retconned to "Rey is a Palpatine's granddaughter".)

 

Eh. Based on what she says she remembers (images, feelings), in the overall context of the movies, I think that can be retconned (if not the intention at the time) as being a force thing.

 

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/s...treatment-retcon-the-last-jedi-terrible-film/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicb...ws/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rey-robot-parents/

 

He's a terrible writer and good disney shut him about robot rey.

 

I'm enjoying how The Mandalorian is retconning the ST even more than TROS tried to do for TLJ or TLJ did to TFA.

LFL finally has the people who understand SW story and who can provide quality content in control. Filoni, Favreau and Fiege's influence is now over SW. Whereas KK and Iger said an interconnected universe was too complicated and there wasn't enough source material - the F guys are proving them wrong.

The entire ST will be alternate timeline by the time the Thrawn event is over. And any post-ST story (Jedi Order being built, government stability) is already being addressed in real ST/post-ROTJ stories - not to do again post-ST.

Hollywood reboots everything. The ST attempt at reboot won't be around much longer imo.

 

Lol

 

The Mandalorian is not retconning the ST. It will all end up being consistent with the ST. It's just that The Mandalorian happens 25 years before before TFA, so there is lots of time for developments.

 

All these things people are saying are being retconned in the ST are not retcons. Just because the story leads to think something is set is stone does not mean that it is. Partial truths and misdirections and big reveals are standard tools in a storyteller's toolbox. It's not a retcon just because you mistakenly think that something presented is the final word on the subject.

 

If you say so. It's quite clear what Favreau and Filoni are doing and its an indictment and rejection of themes of the ST. The context of the ST after TROS won't exist by the time F&F are done - I'm sure of it.

We'll see how it plays out.

 

As stated elsewhere - these things have nothing to do with each other.

Filoni has spent time clarifying exactly how he feels about the SW story in the BTS of The Mandalorian and its crystal clear he takes completely different approaches to SW than RJ - and their work, messages they reflect, and response reflect that.

 

I've watched the Disney Gallery stuff for both seasons of The Mandalorian. Loved it all, and am totally in line with Filoni's view of Star Wars. I also don't see a single word of what he said negating Rian Johnson's take on the material. On the contrary, everything that Johnson has said in his own BTS material feels more in line with what I've heard from Filoni than from Abrams. Johnson also has a degree of respect and understanding for what the prequels were doing that never once came across in anything Abrams had said or put on screen, whereas Luke's initial doubts and sense of self loathing in TLJ feel intrinsically connected to the failures of the Jedi of old.



And of course the stuff with Filoni learning from Johnson on the set of TLJ, and feeding him some TCW episodes that he found relevant to what Rian was doing in TLJ, have to do with one another. The storytelling and the filmmaking are inexplicably tied together. Without one, the other falls utterly flat. The language through which a story is told in film (or on television) is made up of much more than just the written words in the script, and given what Filoni put forth in the final season of TCW and The Mandalorian, it is pretty apparent that he was into what Johnson was putting on camera.

The other thing I'll add is that, like Filoni, Johnson was very inspired in his 'take' on Star Wars by films and stories that aren't Star Wars. Abrams, on the other hand, didn't seem to have any frame of reference except original trilogy Star Wars.

 

- Filoni talking about his views on the Force and the Skywalkers is dynamically opposed to whatever Rian was doing.
- I won't be watching anything of RJ BTS - some can believe its all the same if they want to but we all know better.
- Trying to credit RJ for Filoni's work is The Mandalorian is funny to me - I'll leave i there.
- Writing and being inspired by non-SW stories in a SW movie is why Disney found a brand in tatters. Fortunately Iger stepped up - got Fiege and Favreau involved and they leaned on Filoni's deep understanding of SW.

From subtle things in The Mando with Ahsoka explaining you need training to use the Force (knock on ST) to the obvious treatment of Luke (including his line about he would die to protect his charges) and I', with the majority of SW fans who like this direction and recognize this is an 180 from the ST mess - especially TLJ that started the downward spiral and forced the retconned mess of TROS.

 

If that's what left Star Wars in tatters, then it would have been buried back in 1977 when Lucas was upfront about doing the very same thing. Filoni understands Star Wars so fundamentally well no strictly because he understands Star Wars but, rather, because he understands good storytelling, and how it works in a visual medium like film and television.

All of these stories are at their best (and yes, that very much includes The Mandalorian, too - I absolutely adore The Mandalorian) when they are exploring other genres and films and putting a Star Wars twist on them. Lucas and Filoni have always said as much. Lucas has been saying it since 1977. Star Wars is a synthesis Kurosawa, American westerns (and Italian spaghetti westerns), old pulp sci-fi a la Flash Gordon. The Mandalorian is explicitly Lone Wolf and Cub. You cite the Ahsoka episode in your above post, but that whole episode feels like Din and Grogu stepped foot onto one of Kurosawa's sets (with some extra western elements for flavor, when Din and Michael Biehn's character are having their standoff). Season one has an episode that flat out remakes Seven Samurai. The Clone Wars went so far as to get the editor of Apocalypse Now to direct an episode in the Umbara arc, which explicitly riffs on the Vietnam War. A New Hope plays up shades of Hidden Fortress, Anakin going after Shmi in Attack of the Clones is The Searchers, and that plays in contrast to Obi-Wan's explicitly film noir adventures and culminates in a battle on a planet that is basically a 1950s pulp sci-fi novel interpretation of Mars. Rogue One, which is my favorite movie of the Disney era, works because of its war movie structure; Gareth Edwards getting down in the middle of the action with the camera in a handheld style is something that no Star Wars film has done before or since, but it works because of what that story is. Even The Last Jedi owes so much of its structure to Rashomon. At its very core, this is the stuff that Star Wars has always been, and Favreau and Filoni not only get that, but they wear in on their sleeve with each and every episode. Yeah, there's lots of little Star Wars things in there for the fans, but on a fundamental level, the stories work because they aren't just about Star Wars. They are good stories set within Star Wars that expand on and broaden those themes.

Meanwhile, what was The Force Awakens, beyond just a riff on A New Hope without any of the context or thematic resonance? It was fun, but it was also fluff.

This interview with Filoni and Lucas delves into a lot of those very ideas, and how they felt like they were at their "most Star Wars" when they were straying the farthest from what the films did while making The Clone Wars, and how they used the language of other stories that they love as vehicles through which to explore Star Wars, rather than just circling around the same beats that grow from Star Wars itself.

But what happened with Rey in The Last Jedi when she ran out without training to try to save Kylo? She completely and utterly failed.

And as for Luke, seeing him as he was at this stage in the timeline (5 years post-Return of the Jedi) doesn't contradict or upset anything that The Last Jedi did. If that were the case, then the very existence of the OT would do the exact same. We're seeing the man at two different points in his life.

While on Filoni, his take on Luke from back in 2014 is very in line with where TLJ wound up going (and mind you, 2014 is the very same year that Rian Johnson was hired, so at the time Filoni said this Johnson's writing had either not yet begun, or was in incredibly early stages).

 

I disagree. Will leave at that.

 

There is ZERO evidence that Bob Iger brought on Favreau and Filoni for Mando, while there is plenty of evidence (including from Favreau's own mouth) that Kathleen Kennedy was the one to place her trust in them, and make that decision. Look, I dislike the ST too. And Kennedy is largely responsible for that. But I love Mando, and Kennedy is largely responsible for it too. Give credit when it's due. And it's due.

 

Yeah, through and through, the good and bad... everything you see with the Star Wars title in the Disney era of Lucasfilm comes from Kennedy's umbrella.

 

Hmm. Many argued zero evidence of a lot of rumors and speculation around SW under KK that turned out to be very true. Some that would seem ludicrous but turned out to be very true "like not being a plan for the ST".

But you are indeed correct - no evidence as of now. Heck - there are still some banking on a RJ trilogy at some point. Or think Favreau and Filoni won't retcon any part of the ST they want to for Filoni to tell the story Lucas wanted to tell.

By the time Filoni is done with Star Wars - what TROS did to TLJ will be nothing compared to Filoni SW will have done with the STs messages, impact, and legacy.

All my conjecture of course.

 

The two sequels to The Force Awakens, each in turn trying to undo the narrative of the movie preceding it, is what caused the sequel trilogy to be such a disjointed disappointment. Disney rushed the movies out, without a cohesive narrative across the three episodes. They forgot the rule of the 'Seven Ps" - Proper Planning (and) Preparation Prevents **** Poor Performance