main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Books Disney reported to be refusing to pay royalties to Alan Dean Foster

Discussion in 'Literature' started by fett 4, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    You're right, looking into the history of good ole Walt and he ain't that great lets put it that way
     
    Hypatia and devilinthedetails like this.
  2. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Disney also describes itself as the happiest place on earth and fors everything it can to pay its employees the bare minimum so they can pay their lawyers to find ways to have ALL the money rather than just most of it.

    Never give them the benefit of the doubt they are far worse than the lowest you think of them
     
  3. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Does anyone know if Zahn is having this problem too? I imagine he must have had a similar agreement.

    Edit: sorry, posted that without explaining my thinking. I mean Zahn is another author like Alan who wrote Disney novels. So I'm wondering if it's in their Disney contract.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    The Positive Fan likes this.
  4. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Literally every company. Corporations as entities are there to seek infinitely greater and greater profits for themselves and their investors at the expense of everyone and everything else. This isn't a Disney exclusive problem. It's a problem with capitalism as a whole.
     
    TrandoJedi and Joystick Chevron like this.
  5. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    I think Disney is bad even compared to other monsters of capitalism
     
  6. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Well, that answers one question, anyway - the TFA novel was under a different contract. Does Ms. Kowal explain anything about who ADF's original contract was with, what the original terms were, or who was paying his royalties prior to 2012?

    Really not trying to be this much of a pain about it, and I'm not an expert on publishing contracts by any means. One thing I do understand is that typically, the publisher pays royalties. (Note that Del Rey, not Disney, pays the TFA royalties according to Ms. Kowal.) I just want to understand why Disney is held to be the party responsible for paying ADF's royalties when Del Rey - not Disney - has been the consistent publisher of those novels from their release 40+ years ago all the way up to the present day.

    Also, @Barriss_Coffee asks a good question - are other early authors having this problem? Sadly, Brian Daley is no longer with us, but is L. Neil Smith getting his royalty checks? (And if so, who is he getting them from?)
     
  7. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    The specific works in question seem to be the ANH novelizaiton and SOTME. The contracts on those are *very* early. Way earlier than Zahn's work.

    Who knows how those contracts worked between LFL and Del Rey at the time. The only comparable situation would be the estate of Brian Daley, I would think. Not the Bantam era authors.

    IG: @jedisufism
     
  8. TrandoJedi

    TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2011
    I have a love/hate view of Disney that has only gotten more complicated over the years but Alan Dean Foster is just as important to the legacy of Star Wars to me as Zahn, Filoni, and even George Lucas himself. He deserves to be treated better.
     
    Slater, Hypatia, Nom von Anor and 2 others like this.
  9. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Only because it's larger. If we start singling out "good" corporations and "bad" corporations, we start to lose sight of the bigger picture of the system as a whole.
     
  10. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Fiendish Fanfic & SWTV Manager, Interim Tech Admin star 6 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    @The Positive Fan Yeah, it seems that the TFA novelization was written under a different contract, and so Alan Dean Foster does not seem to be having any difficulties getting payment from DelRey for the TFA royalties he is owed, which is good to know.

    My impression from watching the press conference @QuinlanSolo linked to earlier in the thread (post #4) is that Alan Dean Foster must have at least three contracts pertaining to novels published by properties now owned by the Disney corporation: 1) one for his early works in the Star Wars universe; 2) one for his Aliens works; and 3) one for his TFA novelization. I hadn't watched that press conference at the time I made my second comment in this thread, but after watching the press conference, I have the impression that it was the second contract, the one for the Aliens works, to which Mary Robinette Kowal was referring when she said, "In this specific case, Alan’s contract is unambiguous that it is binding on 'the successors and assigns'" rather than the his early Star Wars stuff, which had been my impression before viewing the press conference. She does make a revenant point, though, about it apparently being general practice in contract law that the obligations as well as the rights are inherited by the successor of a contract even if the contract doesn't explicitly say so.

    I do feel like there might be two separate issues here, though. One is the question of the payment Alan Dean Foster is owed for his early Star Wars works. The other is the question of what he is owed for his Aliens works. Each done under a different contract.

    I think Alan Dean Foster's agent mentioned in the press conference something about Warner books having the first contract rights to his books though I don't know if that was with the Star Wars or Aliens books. She also said that she reached out to them first when Alan Dean Foster noticed he wasn't getting payments for the books on his royalties statements and that it took them awhile to be "allowed to say" that Disney owned the rights to the books.

    She, Mary Robinette Kowal, and Alan Dean Foster also seem to feel that they are getting a bit of a run-around from Disney when they try to contact Disney. It sounds to me like they want to speak to someone in the publishing arm of the company who understands publishing contracts and the general publishing landscape but they are stuck dealing with the legal department that is giving them delayed answers or no answers at all.

    I think the largest thing I took from the press conference is that they are going public not because they want the case to be tried in the court of public opinion so much as they want to put pressure on Disney to talk with them without demanding Alan Dean Foster sign a non-disclosure agreement, which I take Alan Dean Foster's word about not being industry standard just to talk, and that they would like to speak to someone who understands publishing and publishing law/contracts rather than just the generic legal department that doesn't seem to be understanding what they maintain to be industry-standard with publishing contracts and royalties. So it seems to me that the best thing Disney can do with regard to damage control in that way is just have a knowledgeable person in the publishing arm of the corporation reach out to Alan Dean Foster's agent and maybe Alan Dean Foster as well.

    I think it's possible that it's a case of something being lost down a legal black hole when Disney acquired Star Wars/Aliens franchise(s), or that administrative red tape is an issue, or just that the issue is trapped in the wrong department and not getting the attention it needs. If that's the case, then it is not so much an act of malice on the part of Disney or even a single person at Disney so much as it might just be that the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand is doing in a large corporation.

    I should also clarify that I didn't realize at the time that I made my second post in this thread that Mary Robinette Kowal is not only a Hugo winning author but the President of SFWA, and it was in that capacity that she was speaking about Alan Dean Foster's contracts and concerns. So that is why she seems to have some inside knowledge and specifics about the issue.

    All in all, I don't know if we'll ever have all the details or even if we really need to know all the details. I can only hope that Alan Dean Foster will get all the royalties he is owed from the past and into the future.
     
  11. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    If this is happening to other authors as well, could this be the real reason some authors have stopped writing?
     
    AusStig and spicer like this.
  12. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    ...dude, what authors are you even talking about? This isn't the first time recently that you've insinuated the existence of some kind of sinister conspiracy against Legends authors, and people told you perfectly well last time that most of them have continued writing for Star Wars.

    This is kind of getting bizarre. And honestly, I think it's a bit insulting to ADF to muck up his very real problems with some kind of superfluous conspiracy theory.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  13. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Why would Disney even give a **** whether an author is from "legends" or not?
     
    darthcaedus1138, fett 4 and Daneira like this.
  14. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Disney is the worst of them though in terms of royalties. They change copyright laws and then want them changed back when advantageous. They have the most power but treat4 their employees the worst. They own your childhood and they know it, intentionally using nostalgia as a means to manipulate people into just joking about them owning everything instead of hating them with ever fiber of your being.

    I mean he called them all monsters, feels like an acknowledgement of the systemic problem. Disney is the most perfidious is the thing. I think it is fair to single them out not as "the bad one" but as the epitome of US corporations, one that does not just exploit but actually makes people into fans from a young age of the company itself. Exxon is more evil in action, but it does not do entertainment, people don't take their kids to oil rigs and get taught to associate it with childhood and happiness.

    Disney is a uniquely American type of evil
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Soontir-Fel likes this.
  15. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    I’m sure whatever the issues are between Alan and Disney, they can and will be resolved amicably. If nothing else, because this issue is now in the public eye and can’t be dismissed easily.

    I’m certain Disney will pay Alan Foster what he is owed. To do anything less would be to risk a horrible PR backlash. They’ve probably already reached out to him with an offer or a negotiation.

    Perhaps I’m naive. But I have faith in businesses to do what’s best for business.

    Being seen as villains in the eyes of the public and their customers is not good business. I’m sure they’ll make things right, if only for the sake of their image.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  16. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Complete speculation but ADF probably signed some crazy contract back in the day in the late 70's for the original Star Wars and Alien novelizations and SOTME where he worked closer with the creatives and some of his contract was tied into LFL and FOX rather than exclusively the publisher. That kind of thing wouldn't be done today and Disney might be balking at what is being asked.

    And they shouldn't. Pay the man what he's due. A contract is a contract is a contract.
     
    Hypatia and Vialco like this.
  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    It is odd (to me) that there is no mention of Approaching Storm or the TFA novel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Dream-Thinker and Vialco like this.
  18. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    what scares me is thinking how many times this happens that we don't notice, that we don't raise a stink about
     
    fett 4 likes this.
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I think this is the heart of it—like Lucas’s original securing of the merch rights, ADF’s earliest contract(s) would date to a time before anyone knew SW was a golden goose, so his royalty agreements from back then could be much more generous than a later author could expect to get, and that's why they're the ones being singled out for hardball. Come to think of it I’m not totally certain SW authors automatically get royalties at all versus just an upfront payment—presumably different people are going to end up negotiating different terms but who knows.

    I’d also note that while EU authors largely haven’t jumped into this yet (that I’ve seen), it’s definitely kicked up a huge fuss with authors generally—because Disney’s argument would have huge, huge implications for contract work going forward if it were allowed to stand. It’s much bigger than SW, bigger than Disney itself even.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Slater, AusStig, Mia Mesharad and 5 others like this.
  20. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I usually follow SF writer John Scalzi's blog and he has mentioned this in his Twitter feed.
     
    Hypatia, TrandoJedi, fett 4 and 2 others like this.
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    That would be my guess too.

    Of course, having a generous agreement is no excuse for rescission of a contract. None of us have any idea of the terms, but Disney's argument is pretty silly unless there's something in the contract that lets them think they can get away with this.
     
    Slater, AusStig, fett 4 and 3 others like this.
  22. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    More likely they just saw him as an easy target to make a completely asinine claim with, and if it works with him it's more likely to work again later.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    AusStig, fett 4 and darthcaedus1138 like this.
  23. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I have to admit to being surprised to see the term royalties in relation to SW as I thought it was all work-for-hire, but it likely has been that way for a long time and if anything is going to predate that structure, Splinter is it.
     
  24. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    If ADF has advanced Cancer maybe they think they can simply out last him. Its brutal but I wouldn't put it past them. It would be easy enough to spin it out in litigation and legal arguments for them to do that.

    Now this is just a guess as i don't know ADF but I wonder if he is thinking the same thing which is why he has gone public
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  25. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Hey remember when rocket raccoons permantly disabled creator had to have his brother do a go fund to provide. Also how he had to harass Disney to provide the man a screener of the movie which made them a billion dollars?

    Hahahaha time to start drinking
     
    Slater, AusStig, TrandoJedi and 4 others like this.