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Discussion Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Rickleo123, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Also no one starts out "qualified" to direct films on this scale. You find out if they are or not, by giving them the opportunity. That's how all of the big directors got started. So arguing that directors "aren't qualified" isn't particularly convincing imo, we cannot know that for sure because they've not been given that shot yet.
     
  2. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I think you’re arguing with someone else, because I didn’t say that there aren’t other directors qualified.
     
  3. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    In 2014: "JJ Abrams is great, let's hope the new movie will be directed/written by a poc... Maybe a woman of color!" "Daisy is great but the next protagonist will be a woc? Let's see"

    In 2015: "So RO was directed and written by men too and the protagonist is other white british brunette... But let's see what will be the next solo movie and the directors of it and VIII!"

    In 2016, 2017 and now:
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    In that context I have no idea how LFL could not look within their same parent company... at this exact moment in time... and see how incredibly right for a Star Wars film the crew who just made Black Panther appear to be.
     
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  5. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Especially if your going to brag about how you're "committed to diversity" as well.
     
  6. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    And is looking like it will make ALL THE MONEY!!!
     
  7. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    In essence, I think that if you are looking to the “next” of anything as being the one on which you pin your hopes, you’re liable to be disappointed.
    I think it’s probably fairer and more constructive, especially in the context of one franchise, to look at periods of time. So Lucasfilm have just reached five years of Disney ownership, and I think they’ve done some things right in terms of diversity, but there’s clear room for improvement.
    Their hiring of directors has been a problem even on a practical level of having them be able to work with Lucasfilm, which on the one hand is a mark against, but also (just about) mitigates the idea that messes have been cleared up by perceived “safe pairs of hands” (and to be fair, I think it would open them up to “glass cliff” observations of a female director gets her shot at Star Wars as a salvage mission)
    So for me, from a sheer “I like their work” position, I’m very happy about Benioff & Weiss, but their films and RJ’s trilogy are both very much in the era where Lucasfilm need to start addressing the things they haven’t yet addressed. So, I would say that while better representation is already overdue, we will have a better idea of where Lucasfilm’s intentions lie, as more announcements are made. If we’re into stage 2 of Disney;s ownership with the two parallel series, then phase two needs female and non-white creative talent behind the camera, undoubtedly. The only sense in which we differ, is that I just can’t get angry on a film by film basis, I feel it’s fairer to step back and look at it as a whole. If RJ’s trilogy and D&D’s films are all written and directed by white males, Star Wars has a real problem.
     
  8. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Game of Thrones” creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are going to write and produce a new series of “Star Wars” films, Disney announced on Tuesday."

    "Johnson will write and direct the first installment in the new trilogy, with his longtime producer Ram Bergman set to produce the films. While details are scarce, the new trilogy will be separate from the classic Skywalker saga, and instead will focus on “new characters from a corner of the galaxy that Star Wars lore has never before explored.”

    Looks bad enough. JJ Abrams gave the idea of Ava DuVernay to direct a Star Wars movie (I believe it was in 2015) but it didn't happen
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  9. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I’m aware of what’s been announced. The interesting thing is in what hasn’t been announced. RJ’s kicking off his trilogy, that seems fine to me. With D&D, I would hope (from a personal point of view, because I like how they “show run” but I don’t really like their specific scripts) that “writing” is here used as a broad term, and they have plenty of collaborators along the way.
    I don’t think we’re miles apart here really - I want what you want, I’m just not investing my hope just in Star Wars for it, while still identifying where Star Wars can improve. What’s done is done, and the more Star Wars goes on without diverse talent behind the camera the worse it will look. I’m just not going to write off their intentions based on a rocky first few years.
     
  10. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    I suspect that Black Panther will confirm that Brian Coogler, at the young age of 31, is already 10x the director Rian Johnson will ever hope to be.
     
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  11. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    Let's see: Wonder Woman, directed by a woman, was hailed as being the savior of the DC Universe and grossed hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Black Panther, directed by a black man and filled with 90% black people, is one of Marvel's best-selling, most critically acclaimed films, even with over 10 other films to compete against.

    Get Out, a horror movie thick with racial themes, made $255 million on a $4 million budget and is the highest-grossing debut film of an original screenplay in Hollywood history

    Hmm, it's like...maybe directors of color and movies that pay attention to race and gender...have the potential to be money makers! And audiences respond well to that! And whatever Kennedy is saying about "experience" preventing women (and probably people of color in general) from being well-received directors isn't actually true!

    Johnson had around 10 credits overall to his name when they handed him the reins to one of the largest franchises in history. And none of his work has made HALF the splash as the three examples I listed above. Jordan Peele did Key and Peele, but I'm drawing a blank on Patty Jenkins and Ryan Coogler's major accomplishments before their above-listed credits. And they've all made history.

    So why is it such a difficult idea for LucasFilm to pick one of the directors above, or maybe someone original, to allow them to create a movie? This is getting ridiculous.

    And, not gonna lie, I don't like Boba Fett. But if they got Taika Waititi to direct a Boba Fett movie, my paycheck would be RAINING on the box office.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  12. dragonchic

    dragonchic Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2015
    @Miriedis Patty Jenkins wrote and directed Monster and Ryan Coogler co-wrote and directed Creed, both of which garnered high acclaim and snagged acting noms at the Oscars (including a win for Charlize Theron in Monster). So not quite as dramatic as coming from a sketch comedy show but still impressive trajectories. ;)
     
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  13. Starkiller17

    Starkiller17 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2010
    I don't know if she's been mentioned yet, but I think Kathryn Bigelow would be a good choice for directing a Star Wars movie. She directed The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark Thirty, and Detroit.
     
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  14. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    Whoops! I totally forgot about Creed and didn't know about Monster. That's what you get when you try and sleepily type out a post at 1 am, I guess!

    And jeez, with resumes like that, how are they not being begged for directing Star Wars? What more do they need to do--get 3 more Oscars under their belts?
     
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  15. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    indiewire in 2016:

    "[...] In a new interview with Variety, Lucasfilm chief Kathleen Kennedy, who is also a producer on both the new trilogy and the upcoming Han Solo feature, maintains that finding a female director for their projects is a priority, though she asserts that finding the appropriate one has so far been a challenge. For Kennedy, the issue is that the “Star Wars” films are so massive that they require someone who already has plenty of experience, gender aside.

    “We want to make sure that when we bring a female director in to do ‘Star Wars,’ they’re set up for success,” Kennedy told Variety. “They’re gigantic films, and you can’t come into them with essentially no experience.”

    While that’s a fair enough assertion to make — big films need experience! — Kennedy seems to be conveniently forgetting how often Lucasfilm employs male directors who also have relatively limited experience.

    Although “Force Awakens” helmer J.J. Abrams had plenty of previous blockbuster experience before he signed on for his first “Star Wars” outing, other directors in the fold have notably less filmmaking time under their belts. Consider directors Gareth Edwards and Colin Trevorrow, who both helmed major hits (“Godzilla” and “Jurassic World,” respectively) before signing on for their first “Star Wars” film, or Rian Johnson, a beloved indie voice who hit it big with his actioner “Looper.”
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    And with Trevorrow, his views on women were problematic, and Johnson obviously favored the broody-goth-sensitive white guy over all the other characters. I would not say that having a white male director is problematic in and of itself, but could we get one that is more progressive?
     
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  17. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    "Get Out, a horror movie thick with racial themes, made $255 million on a $4 million budget and is the highest-grossing debut film of an original screenplay in Hollywood history"

    As someone who is of an African heritage, Get Out was somewhat alluring of a film with cinematic moments I did not expect from Peele. Yet It almost borderline pretentious of a film, relatively(at times) close to a disgusting pile of garbage that is of MOTHER. I appreciated that Peele was putting fourth his own ideals of racial themes but it got lost in translation at times. The film was more so about how others view blackmen as superior sources of humanity in terms of physicality(the word "cu*king is what is normally used).

    I don't think it is a bad film. I kinda love it. Just that it's format is not appropriate to use for racism imo. Intimacy and togetherness is what lacks in Hollywood, not movies like Get Out.

    The film is being largely misunderstood and it being used as a message against solely of "racism".

    Other than my problems with Black Panther(acts rather less of an African inspired film) and to a larger extent Wonder Women(I felt that Patty made too much of a conventional film despite her gloriously made MONSTER film in the past. Too thin to me.) I do agree with you with everything else that was stated.
     
  18. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    It's also pretty stomach-churning that Kennedy, herself a woman that has made it big in Hollywood through both being partners in companies like Amblin Entertainment, and with production credit on several Spielberg films, is going to sit here and be so...adamant that she hasn't found a female director with enough experience to be in Star Wars. You'd think she'd recognize her own success and try to give another woman a shot to become as powerful as herself.

    Internalized misogyny at its finest.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  19. Jozgar

    Jozgar Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    My big problem with the current trajectory of this discussion is the assumption that Lucasfilm needs to “let” Patty Jenkins or Jordan Peele make a Star Wars movie. There’s a lot more that should go into selecting a director than:

    1. Are they a woman, a person of color, or both?
    2. Have they made a good movie?

    There seems to be an unspoken assumption flying around this thread that if a director fits the above two categories, then the main thing keeping them from directing Star Wars is Kathleen Kennedy’s supposed prejudice.

    In reality, the process is a lot more complicated and nuanced, and that there are a lot of factors that go into it:

    1. Is the director even open to the possibility? You can’t hire a director for a part they won’t accept.
    2. If they would hypothetically do a Star Wars film, can they? Schedules can get real busy in Hollywood.
    3. If they would and can accept the project, do they really care about it, or is it just a job? With a movie like Star Wars, it’s best for the director to have a real passion for the project and a creative spark.
    4. What does the director bring to the project? What are there ideas for the story, the characters, the tone, the technical aspects of the film?
    5. Are these ideas acceptable to the producers? You ideally want to resolve creative differences before the director is even hired.

    Given that there aren’t that many experienced non-white non-male directors in the business (which is obviously a bad thing, but it is a fact), finding someone who fits all five of the above points and who is also not white or a guy is actually harder than one might want to acknowledge.

    I know people want to blame Lucasfilm and imply that they’re somehow prejudiced or uniterested in social issues. People naturally want to find a scapegoat, a bad guy who they can pin the issue on. Unfortunately, the truth is often a lot more complicated. So no, I don’t really think it’s fair to blame Lucasfilm for the lack of diversity.
     
  20. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I hoped for some time that they will bring Ava, Lexi Alexander or Dee Rees (btw she directed one ep in new
    Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams) to SW; yeah, seems won't happen for a while. I have a feeling that some women-directors just even don't want to work for SW right now. JJ even consulted Ava about TFA and changed the last Forest Scene. I think they wanted Ava for some project but she was busy with A Wrinkle or really did not want it. I mean, they would be completely stupid not to want her? I just really want to see Ava's SW film, so I hope they will make her a good offer.

    KK should search better and faster for women-directors\writers and black directors\writers. And give them a big project, not the episodes in new TV-shows. I can see headlines already "Lucasfilm hires first blah-blah-blah for 3 episodes in TV-show." Yeah, they'd better give them a big project and make a big announcement. I understand why they hired these GT dudes, it's more about their reputation when it comes to production issues and working on long project. Couldn't they give them TV-show and find someone else for the films.

    Also, they should look on "Black Panther" production design. Looks more SW than TFA and TLJ lol. Quality!
    And make Ava an offer she can't refuse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  21. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    About the "95% males have been directors in SW" bit; I don't think George Lucas solely counts as he was the creator. However, the aftermath is what truly matters.
     
  22. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    True, it's been 100% so far in the post-Lucas era actually.
     
  23. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    It makes sense. Her being a woman, the boss and being heavily critical on choosing the first female director on a Star Wars flick.

    She not looking for someone that she could possibly have to intervene with later like Colin or Lord and Miller.

    She's being picky because she has to look for the right female director from the get go. Not just for own sake but for that female directors sake as well.

    Just think of the headlines, if during production, Kennedy feels she has to intervene like on Rogue One, Episode IX or Solo. Against the female director.

    No female would want to work on a Star Wars movie after that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  24. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Wait we can't blame Lucasfilm for Lucasfilm keeping hiring white men as director/screenwriter?

    "Given that there aren’t that many experienced non-white non-male directors in the business (which is obviously a bad thing, but it is a fact), finding someone who fits all five of the above points and who is also not white or a guy is actually harder than one might want to acknowledge."

    Gareth Edwards, Colin Trevorrow and Rian Johnson hadn't too much experience before get hired as directors of Star Wars. Rian directed, written and now has a trilogy. It's like "you can't blame Lucasfilm for keeping hiring white british brunettes as female lead because uh they were the best for the role" then you see the gigant list of women of color who tried to play these characters and most of them were amazing (Tessa Thompson, Maisie Richardson-Sellers, Kawennáhere Devery Jacobs, Jessica Henwick, Zoe Kravitz, Naomi Scott...)
     
  25. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    @cerealbox Being picky just seems like an excuse to only hire men. What if they did hire a female director and didn't like what she was doing? So what? Male directors are subject to the same and when LFL fires them it doesn't mean men can't be directors. Caring so much about female directors that one just won't hire any is preposterous.

    I won't give you a job or give you a chance because... I care. :oops:

    It's how I help women advance in the industry... by protecting them from opportunities to advance in the industry. The industry isn't ready for female directors... because there haven't been many female directors. Female directors lack the experience... because no one will hire them (give them experience).
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018