ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Yea, no I understand why you have your criticisms about Finn's arc, and you raise fair points. For me his development in TLJ worked in the context of how the SW saga movies develop its character arcs. You're absolutely right when you compare it to Han in ESB that we could've just said Finn by the beginning of TLJ is now a Resistance fighter, since the audience already expected/assumed Finn was committed to them by the end of TFA. I sure did. Which is why I appreciated what RJ did because he took a step back and noticed Finn never actually declared his commitment and given that TLJ takes place right after TFA, Rian chose to examine that. You bring up Finn going back to Han after the destruction of Hosnian Prime, but retroactively, I think its fair to argue that we can now interpret that he may have gone back to get Rey to try to convince her she must leave with him given that the Republic is now no more.

However, I get why you and others think the TLJ arc felt weightless in a way, and I might've felt the same, if his attempted sacrifice on Crait didn't occur. That to me was what the movie built to as to establishing his commitment. Yes we see him in TFA risking his life to save/help Rey which happens to somewhat align with the Resistance's goals, but he's only risking it, with the hope of survival. By the end of TLJ, he's now willing to accept certain death to fight the First Order rather than run and preserve the Resistance, even though its futile. From his perspective, there's no way he'll survive this, there's no way he'll see Rey again, and he accepts it. Sure, Rose stops his sacrifice but that's only because from the story perspective, this is where Finn's arc payoff intersects with Rose's payoff in that she fully embraces the belief in saving those she loves versus fighting what she hates.

That said, I do think Finn is in the least well executed arc (although I still enjoy it a lot) and I feel the relationship between Rose and Finn feels forced. However, I disagree that Finn felt unimportant or that there was a lack of interest from RJ because of the reasons I stated above.

Still its nice that people are upset about Finn's arc because of a love for the character rather than distaste, like what's happening with Rose and Holdo.

 

I personally think it’s a stretch to argue that Finn ran back to Han for Rey after SKB in TFA. If that was the case, the first thing out of his mouth would have been “where’s Rey.” Instead, he was lazer-focused on telling Han what he knew.

The suicide mission doesn’t work for me in TLJ just for being more suicidal than the two times Finn faced near-certain death in TFA. If anything, I am really sick of how much these writers feel Finn needs to prove he’s willing to die for others, like it’s borderline devaluing his life. Especially in TLJ, where RJ made it clear that Finn would have died for nothing and failed in his suicide mission. I’ll be lookin for Finn to fight to live and fight another day in IX. No more suicide missions. I know, like beyond know, that Finn is willing to die for what he believes in. He has more than proved it. It does not need to be emphasized again.

 

Finn needs to live so Rose can lecture him some more.

 

Also the problem is, the whole "joining The Resistance" thing was A. Already dealt with by the end of TFA. Rian had to regress things just to do it again, 2. Not that interesting as a main character motivation to begin with, and certainly not worth spending 2/3 of the trilogy just getting to, and 3. He joins them pretty darn quickly in TLJ, once he agrees to go with Rose on that mission, the whole "desertion" thing is dropped and he's pretty much on their side from then on. So the movie is basically telling me that it's not important or worth spending a lot of time on, so why should I care then?

Also again, his status as an ex-Stormtrooper/child slave of a fascist cult basically has been woefully underused. Outside of being used to move the plot along at convenient times, he might as well not be an ex-Stormtrooper, that's how inconsequential to his character that backstory has been thus far.

 

Rain Johnson flat out didn’t care about Finn in TLJ and no-one can convince me otherwise. He was contractually obligated to give Boyega a role in the film so he pushed him out of the way with a meaningless fetch quest while he wrote the part of the film he actually cared about: the epic love story between the neo-nazi and the homeless woman.

 

@GDGJ if he didn't care then Finn would've been killed off in the first act and/or his fetch quest would not have had anything to do with the theme of failure, a theme that resonated with all the other characters he cared about.

You want to know what it feels like when RJ doesn't care about your character? Try being an Ackbar fan. Then you'll get no argument from me. I loved Ackbar, man.

 

He was contractually obligated to give Boyega a role. He wasn’t doing it because he gave a ****.

 

Rian at best seemed apathetic about Finn. Even in interviews, his obsession was clearly on Kylo first and foremost, with Luke probably being second. Finn didn't come up nearly as much, and when he did Rian didn't seem particularly enthusiastic about his character either.

The fact that he's shoved into the C-Plot (it's not even the B-Plot, that was the Chase/Holdo vs. Poe stuff), and paired up with a brand new character that we'd never seen before or been given a reason to care about, and played second fiddle to even her, also speaks volumes.

 

Finn "failed" because he parked on the beach and got arrested for it. Let's not pretend that RJ put a lot of thought into that premise.

 

And not even bothering to try and disguise themselves in any way, and making as much of a scene as possible on top of that. Oh and they just so happened to get locked in a cell next to another codebreaker who just so happened to be able to help them out (despite being told that the original one that they went to get was the only one who could do it), and not suspecting that he'd sell them out despite EVERYTHING about his philosophy and mannerisms just screaming "you cannot trust this guy."

 

You all have a choice here. I really could go back and forth on the topic about Finn here, but would it make you guys feel better that I stop?

 

Lol, I...don't think I'm the right person to discuss this scenario with. I mean, I did spend the last few posts in this thread discussing how Finn's actions at the beginning of TLJ were bad and how that just makes him a more interesting and complex character to me. So seeing Finn growing up to be a bitter, sad, angry character that picks himself up in the end and saves a buttload of people wouldn't bother me that much.

I mean, I'm only in my 20s so I haven't seen nearly as many as I would like to see. However, I was talking in terms of representation. Keep in mind that this is coming strictly from my own experience, but the personality traits and characteristics that Finn have are not something I usually see with black male characters. It hasn't been until recently that I've seen black main characters on the big screen that are so compassionate and empathetic. There have been black characters have been heroes before but...there's something special about characters like Finn, T'Challa (the movie version, the comic version is a jerk), and Miles Morales who are just so...genuinely good. Maybe there are plenty of characters out there that I've overlooked, but Finn is my generation so he's very special to me.

That's fair. I'm also gunning for Episode IX to do right by Finn.

Yeah, agree to disagree. Even back as a kid, I had a problem with the OT lack of minority characters and women. I felt that most of the characters (main, secondary, and background) mostly consist of white men and aliens. I love Lando, but I often wonder if he was just added to fulfill the diversity quota. The Prequel also bothers me with its race coding. I find Jar Jar Binks to be racially offensive to black people, as well as the Tusken Raiders to many different people and Watto to different ethnic groups in the Middle East. Also, the franchises portrayal of slavery can be very tone-deaf, between TPM, Solo, and even the ST.

 

Speaking for me, no. I enjoy back and forths. That’s why I’m here.

 

I don't disagree that the sequel trilogy has done next to nothing with the fallout of Finn leaving the First Order but this has been a problem since TFA. This isn't strictly a TLJ issue.

That said, do we really think Finn felt less important than Poe? Of the big 3 heroes, Finn got much more focus than Poe.

 

Define important.

 

Short of some seriously exciting leakage, I'm not going to the theater opening night. It will be the first movie in the saga that I haven't. I think I need to hear the words 'pay off' several times from those who do before I consider going at all.

 

Yup. Ignore the hype and actually pay attention to what’s going on: these movies are far from progressive.

 

I just wanted to ask everyone, what exactly will the ST be known for when it comes to pushing diversity in film, if at all. Do you think its a step forward?

Personally I think both the Saga stories have better diversity and highlighting of people of color. Even though some have gotten shafted like Val in Solo, overall I have found myself more interested in their story lines such as Baze and Chirrut in Rogue One

 

I think the ST will be known for a lame duck diversity push due to an incredibly bland leading female and a black supporting actor demeaned with embarrassing comedy relief. Definitely not a step forward, maybe not a step back simply because it sets precedent...though even setting precedent may be a step back because its bad precedent. At best, the ST spun its wheels.

 

I think the jury is still out on whether the ST truly has a female lead. Ironic considering the narrative that critics of the ST can't stand the idea of a female lead.

 

Meh, I'm completely fine with a female lead (i feel the exact same way about it as I would with a male lead) and I thought Rey was one of the most interesting parts of TFA, I just thought she was written horribly in TLJ.