Lit Do you like the new canon?

I feel like the version of Luke that we got in TLJ is way more relatable and more true to his character. Yes, he has noble qualities, but he isn't flawless like people want him to be.

 

No... Disney Luke in my eyes is just a coward who abandoned everything and everyone. I write my opinion without sarcasm, believe me. I'm genuinely sorry for the character... As a child, I was fascinated by Luke Skywalker. And now... all sad...

 

I just wanted you to specifically elaborate on your "modern men" comment, because it's the only part of your post I don't understand.

 

Luke Skywalker was never flawless! Nobody's perfect. I don't know why you all perceive Luke from the Expanded Universe as some kind of deity...

 

Oh, I'm sorry, English is not my first language. I mean, the fact that the characters are changed to suit modern trends. If in 70-80 years were popular sort of noble heroes, what was Luke in OT and EU, then... now the qualities of the person easier and we have shown Luke surrendered, Luke escaped, Luke a coward. Therefore, in our time, heroism and nobility are not listed. I see it that way.

 

From what I've been told about Legends Luke post-Endor, he was basically god mode, which is something that Luke never was to me.

 

So you haven't even read the stories? That's your first mistake.

 

Don't listen to others. You yourself must read books and put your own opinion. Luke Skywalker of the Expanded Universe, in my humble observations, like to scold and maliciously call deity those who are not able to accept and try on his image. Although there is Luke's only human that sometimes too much saddled. That's all.

 

I own the first of the NJO books but haven't read it yet. Been too busy reading other things (like the new canon), but it is on my reading list.

 

You're so far off you're in another galaxy. Legends did a lot with Luke, but the picture you paint wasn't it. For instance, there's this handy summary posted earlier:

 

I liked Luke in the old EU, sure, but I always got the sense that if Lucas ever did return to the character his take would be substantially different from the character in all the novels I read way back. So when it came to TLJ I wasn’t really upset or shocked by it not conforming to the Legends Luke.

 

Huh, that's odd. I was told that Luke post-Endor ended up becoming some almost god-like being when it came to the Force. Something about him being able to stop both a black hole and a (Super) Star Destroyer at the same time without becoming one with the Force.

 

There is a sequence in Dark Tide 1 that has Luke manipulating the Vong black hole tech via the Force, but he colapses after doing it.

Can't think of a SSD feat.

 

Nearest to a SSD feat is the Emperor's flagship, the Eclipse , going up in smoke in DE but it was the Emperor's Force Storm that destroyed it.

 

I get the feeling that half the people who don't like Legends have never actually read any of it.

 

That's definitely the feeling I always got, back in the early 2000s, during the epic canon vs EU debates that raged on these forums. Some even called EU the "Exploited Universe", and I believe there was even a huge thread titled just that.

 

For what it's worth, I've read and enjoyed a lot of the Expanded Universe. Even the stuff I didn't really enjoy in execution, like Dark Empire, still had it's interesting pieces.

As time goes on, i've realized that all these ideas I thought originally were just poor just weren't executed as well as I would have liked. Jaxxon, for instance. I thought he was super out of place in Star Wars in the original Marvel comics. But Jaxxon as he appears in the IDW series? I actually really enjoyed that, because the style of the story matched him. I think it's why I'm actually interested in the Emperor coming back in 9. It happened in the EU, but I was never a big fan of how they did it. But, having it as the actual culmination of all three trilogies? That I could get behind.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that pretty much any story idea can have good results if executed correctly. And enjoying one universe more than the other doesn't mean you can't still enjoy them both.

 

This is my response when people bring up the supposed contradiction between hating Darth Caedus but kinda digging Kylo Ren (as villains). Jacen had already been established as a character, his fall made no sense with what came before. Ben is a new character, his fall is honestly the only thing we know about what came before, but it means it's not contradictory with what we know about him.

 

As much as I love Dark Empire with the burning passion of a thousand Twin Suns.....It does kinda lack ...Gravitas, espeiaclly if someone as MAJOR as the Emperor is back.

I remember back in the day people say Kylo didn't feel as natural as Jason Solo and I'm like....But Kylo falling to the dark side is built in the characters DNA, Jason Solo was just "Lets do this arc now" kinda situation.....at least from what everyone tells me.

 

Ehhhhh not exactly. Jacen had dabbled and been dealing with some heavy stuff for a while. Plus most any character development is going to be "ok let's go in this direction". Remember Anakin died, the Vong war.....happened, and he left the order after being so disillusioned. He went on that whole soul searching journey and met the Mind Walkers and by doing stuff with the living force he was able to see into the future and saw this dark figure ruin everything. He turned to the dark side and worked with Luymia in order to try and prevent his vision, by holding the galaxy at gunpoint.

So yeah I don't see how Kylo's fall is more natural when he is literally shown as a light sider in one scene and turns on a dime to slaughter kids, while Jacen slowly fell and dabbled for years and years. Even after his fall he was still gradually descending. Remember he is already descending before the Dark Nest trilogy occurred. Heck he had unknowingly trained under a sith (Vergere) before Lumyia trained him. As far as anyone can say, Ben fell cause he was scared of Luke and had simply been interested in fascism once he learned of his heritage.

 

If you think Ben Solo was a "lightsider" in the scene where Luke confronts him in his hut, you didn't pay attention to either movie he is in. "There was too much Vader in him" before he even WENT to Luke's temple, his entire Jedi training was an attempt to stop the darkness his parents already saw inside him.

Meanwhile, The New Jedi Order series ends with Luke seeing Jacen as a "being of light" but I guess all the nonsense retcons that came later are more important than that.

 

If I were to make a list of Luke's characteristics, I don't think the words "relatable" or "flawless" would be present. I'm not saying that OT Luke or ST Luke are or are not "relatable", it is just not something upon which I would be so focused. An individual may or may not relate to either version of Luke. There is no measurable, universal quality of "relatability". I do not personally relate to Luke in the ST.

I can't directly compare old EU Luke to ST Luke as I never read any post ROTJ EU. By the time I was interested the prequels were in full swing and I had a feeling GL would make VII-IX eventually. So, I don't know if Luke in the post ROTJ EU was in "god-mode" or not. What I can say is that disliking the characterization of Luke in the ST does not equal wanting "god-mode" Luke.

For example, we are briefly able to observe Luke post ROTJ in Battlefront II. If anyone hasn't had a chance to see the cut scenes, at least, you may want to check them out. Luke's demeanor and approach to his mission are perfectly congruent with his arc in the OT, but you get the sense Luke is still growing as a Jedi. Luke's part in that story is far too short and a plagued with other poor story choices (killing alien bugs?), but the core character of Luke Skywalker remains intact. Another interesting element of Battlefront II: they managed to introduce lots of exciting new characters and Luke didn't overshadow them at all. Luke's part in the Battlefron II story could have been expanded greatly, I believe, while Iden and Inferno Squad retained the spotlight.

I get the sense - from some - this "god-mode" sort of assertion is simply a method of diminishing and marginalizing a position one does not support. Perhaps that is not true of those in this thread, but it sure can read that way in text form on a message board.

With regard to the main topic, I enjoy most aspects of the new canon with the exception of the the first two thirds of the ST and nonsense like helicopter lightsabers. I would have preferred mundane earth objects like books, paper and clothes irons were never introduced to TGFFA. Most of all, I actively and wholeheartedly wish GL would have remained on board as a creative consultant.

 

Leia also tells us in TFA that Snoke corrupted Ben, an event that had to happen before the Jedi temple massacre for it to make any sense. That lines up with TLJ, where the entire reason Luke considered killing Ben in that moment was because Luke sensed the dark side from Ben that strongly. Ben was no angel - he was well on the road to turning if he hadn't already, with the temple massacre serving as Ben's "point of no return."

 

Not to mention finding out about his Grandpa in the worst way possible via Space Tabloids.

But point is, we don't really know anything about Ben Solo outside a few tidbits and his one appearance in Last Shot when he was a five. For all we know he might have been part of gangs and getting into trouble with his friends and who knows what....Buying spice....He could be a spice person ;p

Point is...we just don't know what Ben Solo was like before he was Kylo Rea.

 

And my whole point was I am fine with that because it means the character CAN be portrayed consistently going forward.

 

Hopefully all questions will be answered once 9 is out and we have the full picture of the ST.

Though one has to wonder if JJ/Kasdan and Lucasfilm in general know what they were getting into when they made Kylo Ren...Part of me thinks they really didn't. Or at least didn't realize what would be the response to the character.

Oh that's another thing I like about the NuCanon...I like at least the greater attempts of uniformity among the various formats....Doesn't always work and some writers are definitely better than the other.

But overall I prefer that there is at least a greater attempt of supervisions.