Lit Do you like the new canon?

Quite the opposite. They needed to be less sectarian.
And Anakin fell to the Dark Side because of his shattered emotions.
The psyche of the guy is weak, and the attachment is huge.

Ki-Adi-Mundi had a huge family. Yes, because of the extinction of the species, but had.
Did that make him worse as a Jedi? No.

But that's exactly what it is. Or is Mark playing in public? No. He does not agree with the change in the character, namely he knows better. Or who knows? Lucas? His word means nothing, he sold his word. But Mark knows better the essence of Luke Skywalker.

Okay, the argument doesn't matter. I don't like the New Canon because it's a dummy with pretensions and hypertrophied features. However, I'm not projecting my feelings onto Mark's vision. Rather contrary - his feelings, his opinion, his attitude to a new Luke simply was killing me...

 

I'm a bit out of my depth since I haven't red much of the old EU, but didn't that Luke catch an enemy just to decapitate them? Didn't he send children into battle or something? Order his niece to go and execute his nephew?

 

Oh... I haven't read about that. Can you tell me the name of the book or the comic?

Honestly, I don't pay any attention to that anymore, because in Star Wars it's all over the place.

And this is the very moment that is unacceptable for me in Luke. I wrote that Luke from the Expanded Universe was not a saint, and some of his actions I did not approve. This is his biggest disadvantage. Like what he did instilled in Jaina the permissibility of killing her relative... How disgusting! But Jacen... Nobody gave a **** about him... Excuse me...

 

Lumiya I think? Whenever she died?

And these example where Luke acts like a cold hard-ass aren't deal-breakers, but Luke being in exile for six years crosses the line? I guess we like different things about Luke. I'd rather Luke maintain his compassion and sensitivity.

 

To be honest, I'd prefer that, too. But the fact is that many books of the Expanded Universe contradict each other. You'll get really confused. But aside from some of Luke's downsides, I think he's a great guy out there... in the Old Canon... I basically don't like Luke in the New Canon, his image, his behavior, the fact that he without his wife and son. Pfff, it's not Luke.

 

Well, yeah, he's not very likeable in TLJ, but that's because he's broken. Although it's unfortunate we haven't seen it yet he was probably a great and likably guy for over 20 years. As of yet he hasn't done as cold and unfeeling things as he has in the old EU.

And I don't care that he doesn't have a wife or son.

 

We don't know what he was doing in the New Canon... But the fact that Luke wanted to stab Ben in his sleep says a lot. And this is that Luke who fought to the last for his father, believed in him. Of course, there is no sense to compare - one thing Lord Vader, sake of which I would leapt under Force Lightening too, and Ben/Kylo - quite another deal, not so important. Still, it's not nice to kill a person in his sleep.

*wipes a tear* Without Mara, Luke doesn't seem whole...

 

Denning Luke absolutely was a deal-breaker for me.

 

Luke momentarily considering killing Ben is, no doubt, a bad moment for him. But given he was reacting to a vision of literally everything he had worked for destroyed, I can understand that moment. But my point is that he had more of those moments in the old EU.

What were the worst moments for you Ben?

 

Pretty much most of Dark Nest trilogy, did give LOTF Betrayal a go and then bailed.

So never got to the really infamous examples.

 

Yeah, I've seen people lean into the infamous "Jake Skywalker" interview pretty hard, but this idea that Mark, the actor, feels "betrayed" or "broken" takes "reading things into it" to a whole new level.

 

Not to mention, if you've read Mark's own ideas about what might happen to Luke... they're downright awful.

I love Mark to death, but he's not at all a good generator or even judge of storytelling or character developments for his character. He's just incredibly superb at portraying the character, as TLJ amply demonstrates.

 

I strongly disagree with that. I feel like the Jedi shouldn't be allowed to form attachments. Jedi having possessive love should be a scary thought. Imagine if a person who had almost unlimited power found out that their loved ones were in danger, even if it was something minor, that character could fly off the rails and do a lot of damage, you know, causing them to fall to the Dark Side. As the audience, our greatest fear should be seeing a force user fall to the dark. There has to be a consequence for that character's power, otherwise, we would get borderline Mary Sue-like characters. As a Force User, you should have to give up something, i.e. having a family.

Anakin's fall had everything to do with his love for Padme, if he had simply let go of everything that he feared to lose (aka his family) then he wouldn't have fallen, he wouldn't have taken Palpatine's bait. So yes, his attachment to Padme IS the reason he fell. He failed to keep one of the main tenets of the Jedi Order and suffered because of that. But he was not the only one in the new canon who did that, oh no, Vos did so as well. He fell for Ventress and because of that ended up flirting with the Dark Side (the Jedi Order helped with that as well, but that's beside the point). Vos fell because of his fear of losing Ventress, I hope that you are seeing a connection here. Jedi + being in a romantic relationship = disaster and falling to the Dark Side.

 

I very much agree with this. It's part of one of the major plot points of the star wars saga isn't it? Old Jedi Order was blinded by tradition and set themselves up for a fall.
If the Jedi weren't such Nazis on forming relationships then Anakin wouldn't have had to hide everything and might have got the support he needed rather than running to Palpatine for manipulation. A big reason why Anakin was so messed up was because of the attitude of the Jedi.

 

I disagree, but sure.

 

What you have described is pure sectarianism. I'll be brief - Ki-Adi-Mundi had a huge family... Was he a bad Jedi? Should he have been banned? If I not mistaken, among the Jedi was representative some rat species, and she, too, had children. And Mace Windu's friend? I don't remember the name, but she was short. She had relationships with a lot of men and each of them had a child. Why are some allowed and some not? Why all the bumps always throw in Anakin?

You describe them as demons of some sort. Forceusers are people just like everyone else. I always thought that there was no need to establish the temple and the sect, to take babies and to grow up children with a nested in the head with doctrine. Idiocy! Forceusers - it's just people with powers.

For the sake of saving their loved ones, even a person without Force will be ready to do things far from peaceful. Any normal person should protect his family to the last drop of blood. Or shouldn't? Then this a begger...

Absolutely! This filthy rotten the long overdue fall! The Jedi are too stupid, arrogant, and believed themselves masters of life who have the right to decide the destinies of others. They should have jumped into the Sarlacc's mouth long ago! Anakin just gave them a stimulating kick...

I completely agree with you! Jedi is so nasty sect where every man for himself, cultivating self-confidence, covered by good intentions. Where friendship and love are forbidden! To call love and affection bad feelings... it's disgusting. The Jedi were playing Holy-roller. And the Jedi Council has reached the highest level of arrogance and stagnation, imagining too much. No wonder Anakin didn't trust them. These servants of the budget have no faith. Yes... the Jedi are not served the Force, but the Republic with her money, without which these talented slackers would not have survived. Poor Anakin! I wish he'd never gotten to them. But then we wouldn't know about him, which is bad.

 

Just want to point out that when it comes to marriages it is also possible that the Jedi banned it to prevent the creation of dynasties and diminish the chance for nepotism in the order. Also no marriages = no partner or in-loves that try to get a favourable treatment, have things overlooked or use their relation to lobby. And a marriage do create doula duties to the order and to your partner/family - a Jedi is expected to travel all over the galaxy on dangerous and/or highly important missions, thereby making it hard for the Jedi to be there for his/her/its family and if the partner is in danger the Jedi would probably risk something important to get to their side, or would have to abound their partner too finish the mission.

There is also that many cultures in SW seems to function more like medieval cultures where marriage often is not just something between two people who want to say that they really like each other and want some juridical binding stuff, it's also something that binds the partners' families together in an alliance, something that the Jedi can't have.

I think that all those characters' families was introduced before it was established that the Jedi did not marry.

 

Yup, the EU felt pretty confident Jedi Knight Ki-Adi-Mundi being a Council member with numerous wives would fit super well with whatever Lucas might come up with in AOTC and ROTS.

 

What I remember of that comic so had the EU not really thought one bit about what being a Jedi knight in the PT era or being a Council member actually meant in that story line.

But it was some time ago I (more or less) read it, so I could be wrong.

 

I disagree completely. I don't see Force users as "regular people", I see them as beings who were called to serve a bigger purpose, and as such must give up something in exchange, treating Force users like regular people is a very dangerous thought process. You keep bringing up Ki-Adi-Mundi without bringing up the fact that while he did have wives, he was not allowed to get attached to them at all, and it was literally only so that his species could continue to live, and nothing else.

The Jedi was not blinded by tradition, it was that very tradition that separated them from the evil and vile Sith, which why they should have to be required to make a sacrifice, the Jedi ARE a religious order so yes, they should have a temple where people are taught the ways of the Light Side, which is also why it is necessary for them to take children when they are just born. That way they have no attachments to their family, or even know who their family is. We've actually seen how dangerous that is in Dooku: Jedi Lost, but for the sake of spoilers, I won't post it here, if you want to know what I'm talking about, go listen to it.

Sadly, not everyone who uses the Force would always act in the name of peace, hence the Sith, beings who for the most part act out of violence, as I said above, the traditions of the order that you spit on are the very things that prevent the Jedi from turning Sith. Anakin was unable to follow those traditions and suffered because of it.

The Jedi are not without emotion, they just try to not let it cloud their judgment and act in the best interest of everyone, which is another reason why they are supposed to keep zero attachments. Say that Dooku knew right from the start about his family, and there was a crisis on Serenno involving the Republic, there is a risk that Dooku could've sided with his family, or more likely, his family could try to bait him into siding with them, making things very unfair since the other party wouldn't have that kind of advantage.

 

*sits quietly in shock and afraid of the person that wrote the post above*

 

Are you as in shock and afraid of the same message when it's worded: "With great power comes great responsibility"?

 

Merlyn Emerald: "Jedi are a filth sect who all deserved to die! Overuse of exclamation points!"

Shadowrain: "I respectfully disagree, here are some valid reasons why I think Jedi should avoid attachment while still having emotions."

Merlyn Emerald: "This reasonable difference of opinion is so shocking, that I am afraid of you as a person, and i'm going to post an exaggerated oversized emoji to express this"

I am very confused right now.

 

It just sounds sectarian. When placed bans on feelings/emotions - this is not normal...

And the Sith, too, if it's any consolation. Sects... In principle, GFFA really need to save - from forceusers...