Lit Do you like the new canon?

@Point_Of_ViewWhy do you insist on making value judgements?

"Plucky scavenger" is a discernable quality - it's just that you fail to frame any of it within Rey's actual presentation in TFA.
We're dealing with an effective reboot of the franchise - you must approach the sequel trilogy from that basis.

She is much the character that Luke is in ANH - lonely or orphaned, longing for a higher purpose, eager and curious, but restrained by the harsh realities of her environment - this is demonstrated both visually and verbally. She is the stereotype protagonist in the coming-of-age story - just like Luke was. And the fact that it is simple, open, and at times, clichéd, is sort of the point.

Your opinion of Ridley is your own.

Ahsoka is a poor example - she too is simplistic, "Plucky apprentice to Anakin" - in fact, worse than Rey because she is only definable in relation to another established character, her master Anakin Skywalker.

For the record, I do in fact agree that TFA is the weakest - but I don't write it off/dismiss it as a failure.

On other matters... How do people rate the integration of other characters into the New Canon that appeared in the old? Thrawn as an example.

 

That assumes that they didn't intend for TFA to make Rey compelling.

 

Thrawn's "superiority", I think, was partly a necessity to establish a memorable character with some presence on the page, to give a fun and exciting launch to the wider old EU.

I think you have to inevitably "shrink down" certain characters when you integrate them, because some of these characters have been referenced ad nauseum originally.

 

Ridley definitely comes out in top of we're comparing TFA and RO.

 

I must?????
I don't have to approach it on their terms. I only have to engage with reality, and the reality is there was no reason that it had to be a quasi not really reboot/wholesale facsimile.

 

Anyone want me to talk about why I love the new canon and think TFA is the best thing to happen to Star Wars since The Thrawn Trilogy?

I also should clarify I'm ambivalent at best about Rogue One by comparison.

 

Strongly disagree on Rey vs. Jyn. I know more about Jyn as a person than I do Rey after roughly equal length movies.

Rey is - force sensitive human female who lived on a desert planet and....um... there's really no motivation or character beyond "she's here". Heck, Finn and Poe! I could say more about.

Jyn may not be the universe's most interesting character, but we know who she is, why she's important, how she fits into the scheme of the universe, and what her motivation is. We may disagree about the quality of the preceding, but it is there.

 

Rey was compelling.

 

Hm, Nah.

 

I think TFA was pretty bad but actually liked Rey. I could feel her longing for a family and her scrappy way of surviving. What didn't like was her OPness even if we can ascribe it to an awakening.

By contrast I found Jyn underdeveloped and shallow even though we had a good backstory and felicity is a great actress.

What made TFA rough to me was the characterization of Han. In the OT he was ambiguous. We didn't know if he was really as good as his swagger, but in TFA he was so down on his luck. It hurt to see my favorite character like that with Bela Tik. I also didn't like the humor in a few places, it just felt a little misplaced but I recognize that's personal.

Highlights for me in the new canon are Phasma's book, some of the world/mystique building in aftermath (I want to know more about Rax and the acolytes), and thrawn. I also like the new inquisitors and want to know more about them.

I didn't like how thrawn seemed less effective though. That's a general problem with opponents in rebels though.

It will be hard for the new stuff to replace the past for me, but will do my best to enjoy what it gives us. I do wish they had been selective in the old material but understand why they didn't.


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Depends on the character. Quinlan Vos from TCW was changed so much as to be unrecognizable as the same character, and that was quite honestly terribly handled. But that's pre-reboot so debate at will.

Thrawn has been more or less well handled. I like the addition of him training against Dark Troopers to show that he keeps in physical shape in addition to keep his mind sharp. However, when he randomly grabs that imperial officer and flat-out hisses on Ryloth was badly out of character and Jarring, and should not have been done. Also I'm mildly annoyed that Filoni didn't want to include Ysalimiri (spelling?) as he "didn't like force-negating lizards". That's alost as defining a piece of the character as his art, and I think a misstep. However generally well done.

Rukh looks quite good. Pending judgment.

Dodonna's addition towards the end of Season 3 was great. Good to finally get a good idea of what he's like. Also, Thrawn's comment that he'd be the last to run actually ties into RO and ANH quite well. In RO Mon Mothma and the council are all on Yavin. A couple days later during the Death Star Attack, only Dodonna and Leia are left. Personal head cannon says he volunteered to stay behind to lead the counter attack as the higher ups evacuated.

Who else has been brought back? Most of the characters I've seen are movie originals (Wedge in Aftermath which was...kinda along his role in Wraith Squadron), or new (Aphra, etc).

 

I'm in complete agreement. And I guess you can either like Rey or not. But she's effectively a modern iteration of Luke.

Charlemagne
Regarding positives of TFA - It certainly restored faith in the swashbucking "fun" aspect of Star Wars that had gotten seriously distorted. In that way, I think you're absolutely right.

It's interesting, to compare TFA and Rogue One. I like to think of Rey and Jyn as sisters - the first is the older, more confident sibling. The second is the brooding adolescent who lives and perceives the misery around them. Hmm...I believe such a thing has been said of Star Wars before, elsewhere. Star Wars does this polar opposites thing, keeps you on your toes.

 

Luke is modern though.

 

Well said.

Others include leia and lando in rebels who were fine imo but would have been better left out. Just seems a little confusing to me that they met Phoenix squadron and Jedis.

Plus wedge in rebels which was okay.

Also asajj in the Darth maul comic. Again fine but why. Seemed unnecessary.


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After pages of "opinions" about TFA consisting mostly of random trolling or substance-free snark, yes, please. Bring it on. Make it long.

 

Indeed. Please. Substance free - I'm always guilty as charged.

 

I wasn't counting movie characters but fair.

Leia makes sense to include but she shouldn't have found out that Kanan and Ezra were jedi. Otherwise its dd that this was never mentioned to Luke. Unless Rebels Season 4 shows the death of both. And as a kids show I can't see it happening sadly, even though IMHO thy definitely need to before ANH. (maybe even at Scariff?)

Wedge in Rebels was perfectly fine as it included most elements of his backstory, but I wish they'd kept the Rand Ecliptic backstory to tie him in with Biggs (better explaining why he and luke became friends). But on the whole acceptable. Though I don't like that thy are reducing his role post-ROTJ and even to a certain degree in the rebellion era. X-wing series for life!!!!

Haven't read said comic. But a lot of her appearances have been "because we can". Same with Ahsoka in Rebels. I know that they're both Filoni pets, but please just kill them both. They've run their course.

 

I think a lot of this TFA mess can be attributed to a basic divide. People here can be divided into two consciousnesses.
Consciousness 1 - "The OT was great and later works should follow in it's footstep"
Consciousness 2 - "We can do better"
TFA would be favored by the first group, while Rogue One would find fans in the latter.

 

I love the OT and find TFA disgusting.

 

We know.

 

Point_Of_View
But do you think Star Wars stories should follow the "tone of the OT"? It's not about hating the OT. You can love the OT but want new stories to be different.

 

Who here is just waiting for Point of View to poop in someone's butt?