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Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Cronal

    Cronal Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 17, 2009
    Reading large continuity I think isn’t that much of an issue. Like if you start off and go “I must read it all” then you will feel it’s too much. But if you read like pieces and stuff then it’s not much of an issue. Like when I started reading the current Legends, I didn’t start like in order or anything. I read the books that interested me and got into it over time.

    Same with Marvel Comics. I think you will find that most people who read say X-Men didn’t like start with say Lee and Kirby run. They will have jumped on elsewhere and then continued. It’s about taking that first step and just reading. Not about like reading just for completion sake. Least, that’s my opinion.
    obi1jedinite and Gamiel like this.
  2. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jun 19, 2019
    @Shadowrain10, I also really enjoyed the material set in the Prequel era that has been released recently. I especially think it is nice to have a book dedicated to exploring Padme's personality as well as her political struggles and achievements, which weren't delved into as much during Legends. Padme is a good example of a character that has been explored more in the New Canon than the old EU, which I appreciate.
    obi1jedinite, AusStig and Jedi Ben like this.
  3. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    If there's one gripe I have with the new canon it's their way of ''certain point of viewing'' it as I call it, when it goes to changing things stated or hinted at in the movies with mere technicalities or just contradicting it for who knows why.

    1. In the movies Scarif was the first major victory for the Rebel Alliance so what about Lothal? Well technically the Spectres weren't doing this as a part of the Alliance and without Alliance support so it's technically not their first victory.
    2. Luke being stated by Yoda to be the last of Jedi. Well technically Ezra's training wasn't complete and Ahsoka isn't a Jedi even tho she acts like it in almost every way, so they don't count.
    3. It being implied that Dooku, Anakin and Obi-Wan haven't fought since Geonosis but they fight like every few months in TCW.
    4. Obi-Wan looking suprised when Grievous unveils his four arms in ROTS even tho he's seen that trick like 20 times.
    5. Confusing the Sifo-Dyas plot line, where as it was confirmed by Lucasfilm staff at ( the time and in the movies that Sifo-Dyas didn't order the army. Dooku or Sidious impersonated him and did it. Now apparently Dooku left the order almost a full decade before TPM.
    6. Order 66 in the movies vs TCW. In the movies the clones just seem like soldiers following orders, nothing personal about it but they'll still execute the Jedi. But in TCW it's like they become stereotypical movie sleeper agents who becomes merciless killers as soon as they hear a code phrase.
  4. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 25, 2016
    The Ezra/Luke thing, I think works pretty well because Yoda isn’t omniscient. As far as he and the rest of the Galaxy were concerned Ezra was never coming back.
    Fallen Jedi Master likes this.
  5. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 20, 2016
    To be fair, Legends did the whole "change stuff from the movies" just as much. Dooku having a master other than Yoda, etc.

    On Luke being the last's still true. Ezra and Ahsoka are out of action in the OT, apparently, and presumably post-ROTJ too depending on where their story goes. Yoda's calling Luke the last Jedi because he's the only one available to pass on the teachings to a new generation.

    Anakin just says his powers have doubled since the last time they met; he doesn't say "since Geonosis". And it's a fairly silly line anyway that doesn't really mean anything.

    Obi-Wan doesn't look surprised at any point in his confrontation with Grievous. He's entirely calm and collected, as if this is a mundanity he's faced countless times.

    As for Sifo-Dyas, that was a mess to begin with, so at least Lucas got around to clearing it up with his version in TCW. And Dooku leaving pre-TPM makes sense, otherwise there's way too much to fit into a very small space of time: Legends said he left because of Qui-Gon's death, which means he's got to leave, meet Sidious, be turned to the dark side, go through all of the Sith training it took Sidious and Maul years to accomplish, kill Sifo-Dyas, order the clone army, go through the whole recruiting-Jango-killing-Komari-Vosa plot...all in the space of less than a year, because the clones are ten years old as of AOTC. It never worked, so better that the preparations are all done pre-TPM.

    And the clones...they're given characters in TCW, so they can't just be emotionless Jedi killers as of ROTS.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Sep 2, 2012
    Agreed. Now that his openly Leaving The Order is pre-Valorum Administration though (Master & Apprentice) it does raise some questions about how Kamino got deleted from the archives. Maybe, as per the Databank, Sifo-Dyas was involved some - with Dooku not just impersonating him for everything, but the two working together for a while, before Dooku decides to murder him and do some things under his identity?

    Perhaps Sifo-Dyas, and not Dooku, did the actual archive erasing?
  7. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 7

    Dec 16, 2012
    Or maybe Dooku asked to see the Jedi archive as a civilian, and he did the erasing while they were not looking.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  8. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    I feel like having other jedi around during the OT lessens Luke and Leia's role in the story as the galaxy's last hope. If Ezra and Ahsoka are still running around.
    No but it's pretty heavily implied that they haven't met since Geonosis when Obi-Wan says '' this time we'll take him together'' since they didn't do that on Geonosis. ( The last time we see them fight Dooku in TCW they even are taking him on together so unless Anakin faced Dooku after that again prior to ROTS. That line no longer makes any sense)
    And I'm fine with Dooku leaving a bit before TPM that was confirmed in TCW after all but probably more than 7 years prior to TPM feels like a stretch.
    Yeah that's probably why they went that route in TCW, because the clones were given characters but the solution still feels cheap IMO
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  9. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Master star 5

    Jul 9, 2016
    Long story short, in any massive continuity that are written by many people in a big franchise like this, there will always be retcons.

    I will say in terms of keeping up one reason I've kept up is because I started NuCanon from the beginning and been watching it's development. With Legends i gotta be in a MOOD to go back and re-read the old stuff.
  10. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 12, 2017
    I'm with you on that. I started reading the new canon very early on, within the first few years of it's creation so it's easier for me to read Canon vs Legends. for Legends I have to be in the mood to read them.
  11. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Master star 5

    Jul 9, 2016
    I feel like this year in the NuCanon theme has been to cement all 9 movies, since we are going with the "End of the Skywalker Sage" motif, make it feel all coherent and one universe telling one mega story.

    Galaxy of Adventure being one of the most direct examples of this.

    Also i'm genuinely curious especially when the movie side is concerned if they know that they are using concepts from old EU books.

    I mean i make fun a lot of how the ST is a Dark Empire reboot, but in a lot of ways the same concepts apply in terms of the First Order being that Dark Empire....Empire, except of a massive deep core fleet it's an unknown regions fleet and a Palpatine return.

    Or with Kylo being a Solo child turned to the Darkside.

    I mean are these things just big coincidences, I mean these do seem like tantalizing concepts no matter who did them first don't get me wrong, I just find it funny how they managed too show up again.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, I'll grant they are going to give it a damn good try and it might work just enough, but totally? Nah. There's already too many gaping canyons, some come from the PT but the ST has also contributed more than its fair share too.
    obi1jedinite likes this.
  13. FS26

    FS26 Jedi Knight star 2

    Jul 8, 2018
    I think it's more of a case of convergent evolution in Star Wars story-telling
    vncredleader likes this.
  14. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 3, 2010
    Yeah Queens shadow is a really good story and very interesting.

    In retrospect it surprises me that we didn't get any stories like this (or even a YA series about Padame) back in the day.

    In general I think, currently the new EU is mixed. Going well in some areas, like the prequels and some of the OT/ST set up. But it's still very limited in a way the old EU wasn't.

    It can't/won't go too much into the ot-st gap. It also isn't the main story anymore and thus has to play catch up to the movies, which seem to be lacking the oversight of older PT stuff.

    But that may change after the new movie in december.
    devilinthedetails and Jedi Ben like this.
  15. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Dec 18, 2001
    I'm almost done reading through the vast majority of the new canon, and I have some thoughts.
    A lot of the time, I like the writing, but dont actually care for the stories they are telling. I thought the aftermath trilogy had a lot of good energy but the story contained left me cold. The way the big 3 seemed to have almost nothing to do with the finishing up of the empire was such an odd choice, especially because they personally ended up needing to fix everything again. One big issue pre reboot was that how the movie characters were the focal point of a lot of material and this goes the complete opposite direction where they pretty much dont matter at all. Until they do.

    The writing is also super modern in a weird way. I got completely dropped out of this story in last shot when the term "han was about to clap back" because that is such a 2018 thing to read. The use of terms like "taste like chicken" and comparing things to real life creatures feels so odd, even if older books went sometimes overboard in coming up with star wars things.

    The overall size of the galaxy feels so small and way too connected to the films, which maybe unfair considering that this is year 5 of a work where we've had movies out every year, compared to 22 years of books comics and games where there was only 3 movies and a couple of tv shows.
  16. vong333

    vong333 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Oct 18, 2003
    I’m the opposite, nu canon has been a chore for me while legends stuff is awesome and can re read things on the fly. So we got a Padme story whoppiee. There are things I don’t want to know and I definitely don’t want to read about the big main ot characters all the time. Or characters from the movies period.. I like it when new characters are created against the back drop of the existing universe. Kyle Katrin, Freedom Nadd, Darth Bane, Darth Sion, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Bel Iblis, Mara Jade, Talon Karrade, etc.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
    Chromide likes this.
  17. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 12, 2017
    And I like learning more about the main characters of the films, it helps to make them feel more real, as well as making the overall story flow more fluidly because you are learning about their past and how they got to where they are in the films. I picture Star Wars as a giant epic on the level of that of the Greek Epics, so having an overall consistent narrative that explains how the important characters got to where they are in the films really works for me.
  18. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Master star 5

    Jul 9, 2016
    So...I'm not a quantity over quality guy but I'm generally curious how much NuCanon content do we have no compared to legends?

    Seriously this is Star Wars Explained COMPLETE TIMLEINE VIDEO (Granted it's summaries but)

    Legends (Done) 21:47

    Canon (2019) 43:32

  19. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jun 19, 2019
    This year I've definitely been satisfied with both the quality and the quantity of Star Wars New Canon material released. I liked both the Prequel era books released, and the books leading up to Rise of Skywalker look so excellent that I'm really excited to get my hands on them. It wouldn't surprise me if this became my favorite year yet for the New Canon in terms of new content. I feel like the New Canon might really be hitting its stride, and that makes it a fun time for me to be a Star Wars fan.
  20. Shadowrain10

    Shadowrain10 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 12, 2017
    For these videos he is mostly referring to stories that link together, something that the New Canon is very, VERY good at doing, given that it's the entire premise.
  21. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jun 19, 2019
    Recently read through Solo, Catalyst, and Rogue One. All very impressive entries. Catalyst especially felt very epic in scale and scope, while Rogue One did a great job diving into Jyn's psychology and capturing the gritty but not nihilistic aspect of Rogue One. Solo I thought also had a writing style that fit the film it was novelizing and I appreciated the extra insights into what happened behind the scenes with Q'ira to explain how she came to be with Crimson Dawn. I have the Battlefront novel by Alexander Freed on my to read pile so I look forward to getting that. Some new and old talent working on making this New Canon for us. Overall, I think most of the "misfires" with the New Canon for me were in the early books like the Aftermath Trilogy. Since then, I've found most entries solid to great. The New Canon continues to grow on me the more I read it:)
    Shadowrain10 likes this.
  22. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Jedi Master star 3

    Jan 10, 2018
    James Luceno is - by far - my favorite Star Wars author. Catalyst was excellent. I continue to hope for a new Luceno Star Wars novel announcement...
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    devilinthedetails likes this.
  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Jul 30, 2000
    I have to say I have mixed feelings on the new canon. They're mostly very positive and I think it's consistently very positive, arguably even more so than the Legends Universe but I do have some issues that have made it so I don't buy every single Star Wars book that comes out as soon as it comes out.

    Generally, I think the quality is more consistent across the board and while the Sequel Trilogy Era has its downsides with the destruction of the New Republic, the Rise of the First Order, and the corruption of Jacen S...err, Ben Solo, I think it's overall a much more positive view of the galaxy versus the Legends universe. This isn't to put down the Legends universe, I devoted 20 years of my life to it, but I feel like it ended on a bit of a downer. The Yuuzhan Vong, the Chancellorship of Daala, the corruption of Jacen Solo, the death of Anakin Solo, and the fact the One Sith conquer the galaxy AGAIN in 100 years.

    I also feel like the NuCanon more genuinely captures what I feel the Star Wars' central theme is: it is an anti-fascist work, pro-democracy, and anti-war mongering even if it's a war story (if that makes sense). The Empire was softballed a lot with Pellaeon, the Imperial Knights, Jagged Fel, and a lot of heroic Imperials like Tank as well as Jahan Cross. I love the characters, don't get me wrong but there's something afoot when the EVIL EMPIRE is given the moral equivalence of the Rebellion/Republic.

    The NuCanon is very clear that the Empire is evil, corrupt, and utterly without virtues--more or less like most real life authoritarian governments. I like how it's also taken pot shots at the idea of, "The Empire keeps order!" and "The Empire was mostly good to live under." I really liked Solo for highlighting organized crime thrives underneath governments where everyone is in it for themselves.

    My favorite books so far have been the works of Claudia Gray and LOST STARS ranks just below the Thrawn Trilogy for my all-time favorite Star Wars fiction period. I've also enjoyed the comics a great deal but that's more, "as good as Dark Horse comics" versus better. They may be somewhat less epic than Tales of the Jedi but it's still pretty damn good. Doctor Aphra is one of the best EU characters period.

    If I have some issues, it's mostly the fact that most of the fiction is just a tie-in to the movies with Catalyst, Phasma, and Canto Bight just not doing it for me. I would very much like more fiction set in the post-Endor and Jakku timeline as well as new material for our heroes. The deadzone they have over our heroes is troublesome, though. But the fact that I would buy a book called SNOKE or KYLO REN (done by Christie Golden ala Arthas) shows that I'm sold.
    Plus the cartoons have been amazing.
  24. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Master star 5

    Jul 9, 2016

    I did a video about the Politics in Star Wars and said that I felt overall the NuCanon Disney Era was far more Thematically Consistent then the Legends wild west Era. Not just politically but about things like the Light vs Dark Side, Jedi, etc etc....
  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Jul 30, 2000
    Ooo, please link me.