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Lit Do you like the new canon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Here is my video



    Also this is the video that got my into the whole "Palpatine in Episode 9 video" check it out

     
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  2. srd5090

    srd5090 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2012
    NuCanon feels similar in theme to the OT because so far large tentpole features of it (TFA) are literally a do-over of ANH.

    NuCanon has played it safe in OT era stuff for a large part of it, and when it comes to Post-RotJ stuff they just copy and pasted Rebellion-vs-Empire with no sense of progression in the galaxy.

    Its depressing and shallow. I tried to give NuCanon a shot but after TLJ and what they did to the NJO-that-should-have-been and Luke, it is not a universe I am remotely interested in anymore.

    DisCanon has a big Post-RotJ problem that has no solution. Legends forever. Even with goofy irreverent crap like the Legacy comics included.
     
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  3. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    There are a number of new canon Star Wars stories I really REALLY enjoy. The first few mainline Marvel trades starting with Skywalker Strikes, the Vader comic, Lost Stars, Heir to the Jedi and of course the new films. I love that Lando and other side characters are getting their due. I loved Rogue One and most of Solo, and I'm looking forward to the Mandalorian quite a bit. I did have some problems with TLJ, mostly relating to Luke, but overall I still think the new canon is very worthy, and worth the time investment. Fallen Order I'm looking forward to once it has a price drop. I've been itching for a new Star Wars game for a while.
    That being said, yes, I do believe the new canon is playing things exceptionally "safe" and there haven't been any true gems on the level of Dark Empire or KOTOR II: Sith Lords, that completely changed how I view Star Wars, period.
    I also lament the loss of "weird" Star Wars like classic Marvel and the newspaper strips. I feel like Disney is too afraid to let Star Wars have fun with its pulp origins, and I hope after this sequel trilogy they loosen up a bit with the constant grimdark and play things like how Marvel movies do. Each one is its own genre, which keeps things from getting stale.
     
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  4. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 26, 2017
    If you're not allergic to the "for kids" perception, Star Wars Adventures gets pretty loopy and has some lore deep dives at the same time. Both Vader's Castle series were pulpy as hell. I notice you don't mention the animated series... they're also home to some weirdness, pulpiness, and genre experimentation.
     
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  5. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    I'm glad to hear it, maybe I'll check those out.
     
  6. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Doctor Aphra, too. To be honest, I'm pretty pleased that we've been getting a fair amount of weirdness in canon, and I wouldn't characterize much of it as grimdark.
     
  7. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    I wouldn't characterize any of the new canon to be grimdark. Rogue One is on one end of a spectrum of gritty, but I wouldn't even call that film grimdark.

    Solo I think is the one new Star Wars film to truly capture how oddball the original trilogy was. There are weird muppet creatures and great, pulpy characters and Ron Howard's directing is pretty close to Lucas's style.

    There are a lot of new works that may take themselves too seriously at the expense of simple fun where it counts, but not grimdark (Freed's material and a bit of the Aftermath Trilogy, Rogue One off the top of my head).
     
  8. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    "Grimdark" applies to the new canon (or any Star Wars storytelling, really) only if you have absolutely no idea what the term "grimdark" actually means. It's a concept and subgenre that is strongly at odds with the hopeful and heroic tone of Star Wars - a tone that the new canon has done a pretty good job maintaining even when delving into grittier material like Rogue One and the Aftermath trilogy.
     
  9. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    I would argue TLJ wallows in depression and self pitying more than I would like for the setting, but that's my personal view.
    Especially when I think KOTOR II: Sith Lords did a much, much better job at deconstructing, and rebuilding Star Wars' themes of heroism and good vs. evil dichotomy.
     
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  10. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    It remains hopeful, though. Luke's obviously the focus of that, but even he gets brought out of his funk by Rey simply stating that she won't fail him like Kylo did. That's enough to get him to reconnect with Leia and intend on leaving the island, and it leads to his redemption via Yoda. Even the ending remains optimistic, even though the Resistance suffers a terrible pyrrhic victory. It doesn't actually wallow in the loss and death though, but goes the "peace and purpose" and "we have everything we need" route instead.

    Sure, you could read in plenty of negativity and nihilism, but that's not really the tone the film takes (and you could do the same with any of them, like focusing too much on the families of the people killed on the Death Star, say).
     
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  11. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 2, 2001
    I can't say anything new about the film, and I don't think it's "badly" made or anything. It's not unsalvageable by the EU or future films.
    The one thing I will say, is the lack of new, interesting Star Wars games has been pretty pathetic, and a game like Fallen Order has been WAAAAY over due. And this is entirely the fault of EA.
     
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  12. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 13, 2010
    I've been thinking recently about how, uhh, troubled post-reboot Star Wars has been and have been wondering why. And I say that as someone who likes most of both canons. I'd like to say the toxic fans that told Kelly Marie Tran to kill herself and so forth were the root of the problem - trust me, you have NO idea how much I'd like to blame them - but there's also been a nigh-comically-long list of behind-the-scenes difficulties that seem unlikely to be attributable to them.

    I also wonder why the same didn't happen to Marvel when Disney bought THEM.
     
  13. Chromide

    Chromide Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 20, 2015
    Disney shoulders some of that blame. I don't think EA is that great but I don't think it is entirely their fault.
     
  14. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Vision counts for a lot. Marvel had a very clear, defined vision. A lot of folks just seem to be trying to copy their formula. Marvel films have been the "Star Wars" of this generation. Everything else is struggling to catch up for PG-13ish action franchises. Same now that everyone is copying John Wick in the GunFu genre.

    They did try to mix things up with TLJ, but it was uneven in my view.
     
  15. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    And yet: four great films, three of which were billion-plus dollar blockbusters and all four of which have gotten anywhere from good to excellent ratings from audiences and critics. And a fifth on that way that will almost certainly do TLJ-level numbers or better. Fans and media outlets loudly cry that the sky is falling when reports emerge of behind-the-scenes "churn" (especially when such news fits their preferred narrative), but the effects of "churn" one would expect to see on the overall quality and performance of the finished product don't really seem to be present.
     
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  16. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    And what's the "churn" anyway? That Kathleen got rid of people who proved themselves to be a poor fit for the franchise? That's surely a good thing, as much as people complain that some sort of "artistic vision" was compromised by not letting Lord & Miller ignore the script at will.

    It's not as if Marvel hasn't had issues itself, either, and nor has its "vision" been all-encompassing. They've been planning a few films ahead sure, but they've also been very open to keeping on their toes and altering plans to fit new developments.
     
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  17. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 19, 2019
    My opinion of the new canon continues to rise overall. I recently read Battlefront: Twilight Company and Battlefront: Inferno Squad. Both were well-written with complex characters. I feel that Freed is the stronger writer, but Golden really created a realistic portrayal of the competitive and cooperative aspects of living in a cutthroat society such as the Galactic Empire. Freed has a gritty style well-suited to war books and Golden has a gift for depicting believable characters in "evil" societies like the Lost Tribe of the Sith and the Galactic Empire.

    Honestly, at this point I would say the new canon has offered more "hits" than "misses" for me, and that most of those "misses" were books I read early on. So glad I continued to give the new canon a chance.

    Looking forward to cracking open Resistance Reborn next! Amazon delivered my copy a day early, so it is right on time to be my birthday present:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  18. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Though the late-Legends EU wasn't exactly in a good place either. Comics and video games were getting canceled left and right, most of the novels were, errm, sub-par, and the only REALLY big things going on were TCW and TOR.
     
  19. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I beg to differ on that one. We had The Essential Atlas and The Essential Guide to Warfare, and interesting in-universe material like The Jedi Path. Also, the RPG material under WOTC and FFG both were at their strongest.
    Some of the comics were experimental in a way that we'll probably never see again (and intertwined with some novels).

    The end of the EU certainly had some downsides, but that was partly the collapse of LucasArts (which the exclusive contract to EA hasn't been much better) and bad decisions by Del Rey (which still has the novel contract).
     
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  20. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    The reference books were amazing, yes. I hope once the ST is complete we'll get us some new canon Essential Guides.
     
  21. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 9, 2016
    One thing I have quite enjoyed about later New Canon as it has gone on is the reference guides...Now that we have a lot more story lore to pull from a lot of the references guides feel a lot more....full I guess.

    It's why I hope reference guides aren't released yearly and instead are released over like IDK 2-4 years...Allows them to sorta streamline any inconsistencies that might come about.
     
  22. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I am glad that they continued the "guide" series (like the Rebel and Smuggler guides) and maintained the same level of quality. The Incredible Cross-Sections have still been good as well.

    The 'new canon' atlas book, however, was a disappointment.
     
  23. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    And when you think about it, it's not really like Legends just stopped mid-story, either; most things did get something resembling a conclusion. Some weren't well received (Crucible), others were clearly rushed (Legacy v2; so Nihl and Talon and them just died offscreen?) but there were few things that just screeched to a halt.
     
  24. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    We will have to disagree on this. I found The Jedi Path bad and much of WotC's stuff not good, if not just bad.
     
  25. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Possibly too much ambition and too little planning. Like the Marvel cinematic universe took years to really get going, leading up to the Avengers Infinity War and Endgame. They probably wanted something like that with Star Wars but sometimes it feels like they rushed Solo out too fast. And who knows what kind of corporate politics is going on behind the scenes.

    Its not like the old EU was in great shape before the Disney buyout (with Lucasarts dead, Dark Horse not producing any great ongoings, all those awful post-NJO novels) but with a large foundation of eras to draw on, I felt like new gems could show up any time (such as the last few Essential Guides).

    Instead nu-EU has mostly been focused on same old OT era as they're obsessed with avoiding spoilers (the IX novelization won't be out until next year). Doesn't help that the sequel era is mostly a ripoff of the OT era too. That and changing directors between sequels probably means there's literally no overall plan, so no one can actually make a new, semi-important story until the sequels finish.

    I hope after December the new EU can start to take off, but I'm still not optimistic. And that's not even going into how the sequels just don't feel like they're telling a worthwhile story, but that's a different debate.
     
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