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PT Do you think Jar Jar Binks is as annoying as fans actually make him out to be?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Dec 24, 2019.

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Do you think Jar Jar Binks is as annoying as fans actually make him out to be?

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
    19.8%
  2. No

    65 vote(s)
    80.2%
  1. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Also Padme needed to get to know Jar Jar and to develop trust with him. She had no opportunity to do that in Theed before they left. If they did leave Jar Jar on Naboo, and she did somehow decide to return, and somehow, for some reason, was able to talk with Jar Jar, there would have been no rapport or sense of sympathy there between them.

    I think that would've felt more random than bringing him along.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  2. Togruta

    Togruta Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    ^Then Qui-Gon would've been there to step in and say he's trustworthy.

    Anyway, I've talked about this enough so I'll just leave it at "agree to disagree".
     
  3. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Absolutely, this is one of many reasons it makes so much sense that Jar Jar is fairly prominent in this movie, it goes completely with the subtext of the movie and what Lucas wants the audience to understand (the whole "symbiosis" of different sentient beings).
     
  4. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Yeah I'm fine with Jar Jar being prominent. But I do wish his character and dialog had been refined a lot more. As I said, he's constantly crossing the line into "too much/annoying/not funny" territory. But I stand by his underlying usefulness and necessity to the story Lucas was telling.
     
  5. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Jar Jar, and the Gungans overall, kind of represent the naivete of many of the beings in the Republic.
     
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  6. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Why this invalidating people's opinion about something?
    A person can't just not like something, now that opinion is wrong or not genuine and is instead them trying to be "cool" or "hip".
    With the ST there was and still is quite a bit of bashing critics of TLJ esp. Calling them "sexist" and "racist".
    This does not help and just creates animosity and conflict.

    Look at the reason why a person gives for their like/dislike and deal with those, not the person giving it.

    For me, I didn't hate jar Jar, my main issue is that I never once laughed at any of his antics and for the first half of the movie I had trouble understanding what he was saying.

    So a comic-relief character that I don't laugh at, that becomes a problem. Esp since Jar Jar is in so much of the film and he gets a lot of attention. But since it wasn't funny is just became distracting and time wasting.

    As for what Jar Jar did, like telling Padme about the Gungan army.
    Her deciding to go back still has loads of problems.
    As far as she knows, the blockade is still there, which they barely got through the last time.
    She has no idea that those fighters are in the palace and could be used.

    What might have worked better is that some of people stay behind and she gives them a communicator that sends a very narrow signal that is hard to block and difficult to trace. Through that she keeps in touch with a few back home and they tell her a bit of what is going on. That people have been rounded up, later they could tell her that the TF has removed most of their ships and they have taken a few fighters and are staying hidden.
    So now Padme knows a bit more and so her going back makes a bit more sense.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
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  7. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Not even a top five character for me on the annoyance level. Give me Jar Jar's antics any day over that code breaker from TLJ or the droid from Solo.
     
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  8. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    That's the turning point of the movie. It's not that there's a "good chance" that what people are saying about Jar Jar's role in that scene is true. It's obviously what's going on. Jar Jar mentions that the Gungans have an army and muses that that's probably why the Naboo don't like them, and that's when Amidala suddenly has the idea of forming an alliance with the Gungans. She realizes that the Naboo's intolerance of the Gungans is blinding them to the ways in which they depend on them, reinforcing the theme of symbiosis which permeates the film. It is because of Jar Jar that she has this epiphany, and it also because of Jar Jar that she is able to find the Gungans and make her offer. The outcast Jar Jar, who lives in the liminal space between the two worlds, becomes the link connecting the two societies. He plays this role of connection throughout the film, connecting the two Jedi to the Gungans in Otoh Gunga, connecting them further with Queen Amidala by "navigating" them to Theed, connecting this group with Anakin Skywalker in the streets of Mos Espa, and then connecting all of them once again with the Gungans in the Sacred Place. As Lucas says, Jar Jar is the key to everything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  9. Togruta

    Togruta Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    ^I think his roles on Tatooine and Coruscant could've worked or easily been rewritten without him, as I've explained already (Qui-Gon and Padmé could've stumbled upon Anakin and Sebulba on their own).

    If you think differently, fine. That's why I said agree to disagree.
     
  10. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Anything in any movie could be written differently in order to excise a character. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

    You're perfectly free to agree to disagree and bow out of the discussion. I'm still allowed to comment on what you said.
     
  11. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    That's a good point. Even the people of Naboo seem relatively naive and overly idealistic in many ways. It's so creepy to see Palpatine smiling gently at celebration that concludes TPM, while everyone around him is completely oblivious to the fact he will destroy all of their lives, destroy the Old Republic, destroy the Jedi Order, destroy peace and democracy.

    But the movie is infinitely better with him in it the way he is. I like that he got to hang around with the other protagonists. And kids in particular were really happy with him around and enjoyed his antics. There's no compelling reason to have less of Jar Jar in Episode 1....
     
  12. Togruta

    Togruta Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Having him around to be the comic relief / kiddy character of the movie is probably the best reason.

    I think either less Jar Jar, or a dialed down Jar Jar, would've helped lessen the hate for him. Or maybe if he were more of combination of himself and Tarpals, a more useful, grounded character that could fight, but was still naive and slaptsticky at times.
     
  13. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    At the same time, the situation on Naboo itself was a pretty clear victory. The two peoples came together, forced the greedy bad guys off their world, and restored peace to a united planet. If Amidala hadn't given in to Palpatine's manipulations earlier and helped pave the way for his election, then everything would have been fine. The tragedy is that she realized what needed to be done only after she'd already made that mistake.

    Aside from that, the resolution of TPM serves as a model for what needs to happen going forward. Unfortunately, instead of the Separatists and Loyalists joining together like the Naboo and the Gungans to root out the corruption in the system, they turn against each other. And Jar Jar repeats Amidala's mistake and allows himself to be manipulated into giving Palpatine more power. Then Anakin turns against Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi and allows himself to be manipulated by Palpatine into helping him to establish the Empire, completing the deviation from the model and the galactic society's resultant fall from grace.

    It's only in ROTJ that things come full circle and the model established in TPM is once again followed. Like the Naboo and Gungans before them, the Rebels join together with the Ewoks to repel the technological force occupying their natural world. This time, instead of allowing himself to be manipulated by Palpatine, Vader sees through the lie and turns against him. The system of mutually beneficial relationships is re-established and the entire galaxy joins together in celebration at the promise of a regenerated society.

    Some would argue it's quite appropriate that the last line of comprehensible dialogue in the original saga is a Gungan on Naboo shouting, "Wesa free!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  14. BadCane

    BadCane Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Jar Jar Binks is a supreme God-like being and I'll defend him forever.
     
  15. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    It's almost like it rhymes or something ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  16. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    I always liked Jar Jar even though I think he’d be better with slightly more restraint. Still, Lucas’ Best’s, and the rest of the team’s excitement about the character leap from the screen.

    I find the Gungans’ creole to be really fascinating and it’s presence to be original (though I do wish it were more consistent). A while ago I came across a piece that lamented the fact that while there are plenty of examples of constructed languages (like Klingon or Na’vi or Dothraki), creoles aren’t more widely used in fantasy and sci-fi. There might be more examples but I can only think of two, Gungan and Belter speak from the much more recent The Expanse. Unexpected but completely fitting the the SW universe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  17. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
    I think he is and people are holding back now just because of the whole "Ahmed Best was depressed" thing which is terrible but doesn't make the character less annoying.
     
  18. jaimestarr

    jaimestarr Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2004
    I think Jar Jar just had too much screen time in TPM. He was certainly not the first muppet-esque character that was an exotic alien designed for laughs...Jabba's palace was full of them. He just was the first to get sooooo much screen time. Less is more in these instances. Essentially you had this Roger Rabbit kinda character interjected into a space fantasy. It's not that Jar Jar was too kiddie, silly, etc. It's just that he was constantly doing his one or two note schtick throughout...eating up screen time. Unlike Yoda, Jar Jar only has a few speeds/nuances/tones.

    George Lucas once famously said that the problem most sci-fi fantasy movies have is this: It takes so much time to create characters/props/sets that the movies take time to show off all of the exotic creations at the expense of the story. With Jar Jar, Lucas was guilty of this.

    Jar Jar is/was a technological watershed moment in special FX. I feel like Lucas really overplayed how much of this character was the proper dose and audiences got a bit tired of it. A lesson from this: A little Jar Jar goes a long way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  19. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Jar Jar is okay. Most people have said that TPM would be boring completely without him. But I disagree. My Dad and I have liked TPM since 1999, and we're proud to say so. It set up a change for the EU stories.

    Besides, the notion that Jar Jar gave Palpatine his emergency powers, or was tricked into it, is not a bad idea. That's often how real dictators operate. They'll make it appear as though a member of their parliament wants to hand them that power for the good of all. So, George Lucas had a very realistic idea. He just told it in a cartoony, silly way. Sidious has a habit of appearing sophisticated in the EU and painfully obvious in the movies. But that's fine. Different writers tell different aspects of Legends. ;)
     
  20. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    I never understood people who say its JarJar's fault Palpatine got emergency powers; JarJar merely proposed the Senate give him those powers, no one was forced to actually go along with it

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
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  21. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    I don't know if it's really Jar Jar's fault per say that Palpatine got emergency powers. He does propose that the Senate give Palpatine those powers, but the Senate votes in pretty enthusiastic support of his proposal. I get the vibe from the scene in the Chancellor's office and the novelization that it's a case of a good number of politicians seeing the merits of giving Palpatine these emergency powers, but nobody wanting to risk the political repercussions of proposing this idea, but then Palpatine is able to sort of play off Jar Jar's genuine desire to do as Padme would do by alluding to what Padme would do if she were there. It's an emotional manipulation Jar Jar is susceptible and vulnerable to because in filling in for Padme, he wants to do as she would do, an understandable and even sympathetic motivation.

    So, I do think Jar Jar is manipulated into proposing the emergency powers for Palpatine, but the entire Senate as a whole is also manipulated into voting to grant Palpatine those emergency powers. It sort of echoes how Palpatine manipulates Padme into proposing a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum, which opens up the door of opportunity for Palpatine to become Supreme Chancellor, but it is the Senate that nominates and then elects Palpatine for Supreme Chancellor. The Supreme Chancellor is able to manipulate Jar Jar, but he also does the same to Padme and the Senate as a whole. At any rate, I wouldn't paint Jar Jar as uniquely responsible for Palpatine's rise to emperor in a way that Padme and the Senate as a whole. Palpatine manipulates everyone. That's at the core of the tragedy of the PT. Jar Jar gets manipulated but not really more so than anyone else.
     
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  22. Valiowk

    Valiowk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2000
    It's difficult to answer this question with a yes/no answer because I think the answer is that Jar Jar is simply as annoying as one finds him to be: the degree to which he annoys different people depends on an individual's preferences. Just because one person may find Jar Jar less annoying than another person does doesn't make the other person wrong to find Jar Jar annoying. Of course, if the title question is asking if I personally find Jar Jar annoying, then that's another matter, but I get the feeling that the title question is asking for an objective judgement of whether or not Jar Jar is annoying, which I think is not possible to have a single answer to.

    More significantly, I have the impression that if one finds Jar Jar annoying, that might have been intentional. Jar Jar reflects a certain type of person in society, and part of Star Wars is about whether one is able to accept the different types of people who exist in society and 'let live', so to wish that Jar Jar's role had been reduced if one finds Jar Jar annoying may be to bark up the wrong tree.
     
  23. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    Very good exposition and I totally agree.

    In my opinion, there was a genuine annoyance by some fans (including me) when we saw this goofy mystery character getting his lips zapped in the teaser. We weren't sure we were going to like him.

    However, the fact is that critics have never liked Lucas all that much. In Los Angeles, the higher ups in the film industry have to have resented him for years beacuse he ran away and started his own studio up in the Bay. He took talent and money away from their thing in Los Angeles. Between that and the LA Times, which never misses a chance to pander to them and certainly not to milk racially charged issues (or non-issues) there was a perfect storm. The LA Times published a huge headline soon after the film came out--I kid you not-- saying "IS GEORGE LUCAS A RACIST?" or something very similar. Some professor in Michigan made a very measured though perhaps not fully informed critique of Jar Jar as supposedly echoing Disney's black crows from Dumbo, being a stand-in for Jamaicans or Blacks in general. Incidentally Ahmed Best is West Indian by ancestry and said this critique was offensive to him since he is not Jamaican nor was he attempting to sound or act Jamaican. Anyway, once the "grown up" fan energy joined with the supposedly woke critique of the character, buzz in southern california became extremely negative, and it became "cool" or "sensitive" to hate on the new movie in the artsy circles within which I moved, and especially cool to loathe Jar Jar.

    My view is that "racism" charges had only a very thin and indirect basis, they came from well-meaning academics who are trained to find racism in ink blots, practically, and these people were originally very measured in what they said, calling Lucas careless but not prejudiced. But the LA Times article poured gasoline on this concept, and poisoned the fandom and the general public against the movie. I am not saying "grown up" fans were not annoyed already, just that this granted their indignation a purportedly moral foundation upon which to stand. I really feel bad for Lucas and even more so for Ahmed Best, who really didn't deserve to be called an Uncle Tom for playing a character based on Buster Keaton antics. I remember resenting my friends who had caught the virtue-signalling virus at this early stage and how lonely I felt defending the movie. it really was rooted in moral pretense even more than annoyance, because the latter would have subsided. To an extent it did so anyway, but I think the culture of the entertainment industry did more than anything to savage this movie and this character, just because it was a chance to sink their teeth into George. I really think envious haters were at the root of it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  24. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Well, yes, basically. And this brings up an important point. It seems like the general public has the misconception that Jar Jar is some sort of fundamental failure on the part of Lucas to attempt to create a non-annoying, easily likable, fan-favorite new character. One common statement I heard a lot back in the day was that "Lucas has lost his touch". But if one watches the movie and looks even just a tiny bit below the surface they'll see that everything about Jar Jar is deliberate and intentional and serves a purpose.

    Firstly, even the characters in the film acknowledge that Jar Jar is odd, annoying, overly-talkative, pathetic, unwanted, despised etc. And Jar Jar himself admits to being clumsy and accident prone. So from this alone we can see Jar Jar's demeanor is not some unfortunate accident or lapse in character development. It's everything it's meant to be.

    Exactly. Which always makes me wonder when I hear people rip on Jar Jar; is this how you think of and treat people like him in real life? What happened to compassion? Seeing the good in people?

    True. What's fascinating to see is the only people who fully accept Jar Jar for who he is and genuinely respect him as a being and love him unconditionally are Anakin and Padme.

    In some ways, Jar Jar is kind of a litmus test.

    To say the least ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  25. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2019
    I'll be honest, the only time he annoys me is during the battle of Naboo. It's during the climax, things are supposed to be tense, Gungans and Naboo pilots are dying... now isn't the time for slapstick.

    Otherwise, he's never bothered me.