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ST Do you think more people will warm up to the ST 15-20 years from now?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. CrAsHcHaOs

    CrAsHcHaOs Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 7, 1999
    I remember when the PT came out and how utterly despised those were. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that a lot of people warmed up to them (mostly because the kids who grew up on the PT really liked them, so a lot of those kids who are no longer kids talk about how much they love the PT on social media and stuff).

    Do you think the kids who just got into Star Wars with the ST will, when they are no longer kids, talk about how much they liked the ST?
     
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  2. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    As is, I'd say definitely not. The PT actually made sense in conjunction with the rest of the saga. The ST is like a puzzle piece that doesn't fit.

    However, a lot can be done through the stand alone movies and the TV shows that can fill in the gaps. And if enough problems are fixed, and the ST is bolstered by new material that changes the story being told, anything is possible. I think that should be the goal for Lucasfilm over the next decade. Fix the mistakes by filling in the gaps and retroactively change whatever needs to be changed to make the story more cohesive to both itself and the larger trilogy.
     
  3. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I don't know but I'm thinking no as well. Some will, but I think the PT has aged well because of nostalgia and the fact that it is George's vision. I grew up with the OT. I like the PT, was never a hater.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  4. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Probably

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
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  5. KyloLukeLeia

    KyloLukeLeia Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2020
    This.

    The PT was hated by a section of the fanbase back in the day because they looked at them as individual movies. Once they took at step back and saw them as a Trilogy, and how it fit with 4-6, many of them re-evaluated it and appreciated it even with flaws (the world building, Palpatine's arc, etc).

    The ST won't have that luxury to be re-evaluated the same way because it was never written as a Trilogy (JJ recently admitted they never had a long-game plan). So what you see is what you get. Now if fans take a step back and look at 7,8,9, nothing will be different.
     
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  6. mtt02263

    mtt02263 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2020
    I'm going to say no. People said that more after TLJ was released, that TROS would bind the Saga together and we really had to wait for the trilogy to be complete. Now a huge portion of the fanbase, especially TLJ fans, hate that film and also trash the trilogy itself for not working cohesively. The PT had some terrible acting and dialogue, but it was George's story and made a chohesive trilogy. The ST IMO is likely to fade from memory in the coming years, I suspect more apathy than anything else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  7. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2013
    I think, based on the sort of tug of war production cycle of the trilogy, portions of the fanbase will likely warm up to the Abrams entries or TLJ, but not many will warm up to both (unlike the PT, which people have been warming up to as a cohesive whole).
     
  8. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    I think the most positive thing at this point actually is for all the people who loved TLJ and hated ROS, along with all the people who hated TLJ but like ROS, stand together by telling Disney and Lucasfilm that even though they own the franchise, it belongs to the fans, and they need to be more respectful in terms of how they proceed. Not having a plan, or having a plan and then drastically changing direction, or whatever the hell happened... Disney and Lucasfilm let a lot of people down because of their approach. Throwing away Lucas' treatment, IMO, was pretty much blasphemy, and Iger and Kennedy owe us an apology. We deserved better than to have no one at the helm.

    Because the argument is always whether or not you liked TLJ and hated ROS, or vice versa... and perhaps that is split down the middle. What we never really ask, or at least I don't remember seeing it, is whether people liked the ST as a whole or not.... I suspect the results would be worse for the ST than it would be for either TLJ or ROS. The ST is probably the biggest blown opportunity in the history of storytelling.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  9. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    Well... let's delve into this. I think a big problem with the PT is that Lucas got too big for his britches and thought he could do everything himself. I think he later realized that maybe he went too far in a few places (see what I did there?) and got himself into a group dynamic again like he did with the OT when he started doing TCW. But I also think TCW was only as good as it was once Lucas shed his ego and got himself a filter for his ideas again (much like Kasdan, Kershener, Kurtz, etc) in the shape of Filoni and others. TCW is sort of the gloss that makes the PT work for a lot of people.

    The only way D/LFL will ever be able to retroactively salvage the ST is by admitting to themselves that they made mistakes with it in the first place. And honestly, I don't think that will ever happen.

    And I am in no way saying that the PT is objectively bad and wouldn't have fans without TCW. I'm just stating that I know I've spoken to many people who feel like TCW really cemented what Lucas was trying to do with the PT and I don't think the PT fanbase would be as big as it is now without TCW.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  10. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    They know. They may never publicly admit it, because that would mean throwing JJ and RJ under the bus, and they won't do that. But they definitely know. The reaction to the end of Mandalorian Season Two spoke volumes. So while you're right they will never admit it, I suspect they are already in the process of fixing their mistakes.
     
  11. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Who knew people wanted to see Luke Skywalker doing heroic things? Shocking. And no projecting your self and then dying is not what many had in mind.
     
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  12. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Should it matter what people had in mind, though? None of TLJ was what I had in mind – still dug it though.

    I love The Mandalorian, but Luke serving as a "Get out of jail free" card and then walking away with one half of the show's core at the end of season two is something I still have a bit of a problem with, if I'm being completely honest.
     
  13. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    IMO, Star Wars movies have a set of criteria that they usually adhere to, with some leeway in between. I believe most of the audience is hoping to see a version of what they're expecting done exceptionally well. IMO, Disney should use the six Lucas films as bars that they won't cross. For instance, nothing should get sillier than Jar Jar and TPM. Nothing should get sappier than AOTC. Nothing more dramatic than ROTS. Nothing as visually unimpressive as ROTJ. I left out ANH and ESB because I couldn't think of a single obvious flaw in either. Anyway, my point is, wouldn't the best way to figure out what SW fans want as a collective to analyze how fans felt about the previous films?
     
  14. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I say yes. Because there will be popular TV shows and movies that make people more invested in that era. We can count on that happening sooner or later.
    Especially since they've already taken their first steps in that direction. The Mandalorian and its spinoffs will probably lead to a big confrontation with Thrawn and it will all tie into the origins of the First Order.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  15. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I love TLJ and absolutely DESPISE TROS.
    I honestly don't know whether these films will become loved, or continue to be reviled, because as years pass tastes change and everyone has different tastes regardless. Sometimes you look back on things through the rose coloured spectacles of nostalgia. I've seen films I liked years ago recently and realised they weren't as great as I thought they were as a kid.
    Thing is, TROS has frankly smashed SW as a family saga with a wrecking ball. Start watching the entire saga from the beginning and it clearly shows as the story of the Skywalkers. It begins with Anakin, we see him grow up, become a Jedi, experience forbidden love and marry. We see the tragic fall of Anakin and the rise of Vader. We see the Twins as adults, unaware of their father's dark legacy, see Luke change from callow youth into a powerful but compassionate man, see him rediscover his sister, redeem his father and bring down an Empire.
    TFA introduces us to new characters - Finn, Rey and Poe - but also brings back the old ones, and introduces us to their unhappy child, now a man. TLJ shows all these new characters maturing, for better or worse, as one by one the OT characters bow out.

    Then what does TROS do - it destroys the entire saga. And not just with Ben Solo's death but by resurrecting the ancient enemy his grandfather killed. And the ancient enemy brings about the death of the last Skywalker.
    I'm sorry, but the ST has done nothing but bring the Skywalker saga to the most nihilistic end they could have dreamed up. They take a nine film, forty two year old family saga and proceed to kill every.single.one of them off - while making the sacrifice Anakin did in the OT completely pointless. I don't care if Ben's sacrifice 'gave Rey back to the galaxy' - he was the last descendant of Anakin, and he died because of Palpatine.

    I wonder what people who have no idea how the entire story plays out will think of it after watching the entire nine films from the start?

    The good guys that are the heart and soul of the SW saga.....all die. And the 'big baddie's' granddaughter inherits everything. You can bump Rey Palpwalker up as much as you like but it does NOT change the fact that she is the enemy's descendant and that his descendant lives while the heroes are all gone.
     
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  16. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    i think people underestimate how popular Rey was with young girls. My kids first star wars cinema experience was TFA aged 5 and 8 and they will never forget it and neither will I.
    i do think the PT is seen thru rose tinted spectacles. As a defender I know how hard I had to defend them at the time, exactly the same as now. I will fight tooth and nail to preserve the happy memories of cinema going with my kids between 2015 and 2019
     
  17. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    I've always believed the skywalkers were created by Palpatine so it made perfect sense to me. Wish that had been revealed as I believe it was originally a Lucas concept and think it solves eveything
     
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  18. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I like that! That's an important point. It's very easy for us adults to get carried away with our negative feelings and forget that there is a bright side to things.
    For the sake of progress, we have to acknowledge the ugly aspects of Star Wars, but we must also remember to celebrate the things they got right, and allow people - especially kids but ourselves as well - to look back with fondness at those happy moments, to relive them and generally enjoy the movies as much as we can.

    As critical as I am of the Skywalker Saga (this trilogy in particular), I see good things too - and TFA definitely makes me nostalgic!
     
  19. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Well said. I remember when one or two people asked me what I thought of TLJ after it got so much negative response from fans and I always replied:
    'I liked it.'
    For me TROS was possibly the most disappointing cinematic experience in my life, but that is my experience. I don't want to ruin something for young people and children who may very well love it. At the end of the day each cinemagoer's experience is their own.
     
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  20. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    me and my son saw ep9 twice over that Christmas.. Happy memories
     
  21. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I remember first seeing ANH at the Gaumont in town back in '78. I was 12.
    Happy memories indeed.
     
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  22. 2Cleva

    2Cleva Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Bingo.

    I know some fans wish everyone would embrace the ST for the sake of Star Wars but there is no logical story there.

    It really comes down to what F&F will want to do. Will they want to guide their story to fix all of the issues of the ST (from non GL people no longer with Disney) or do they want to tell their own story. 99.9% of time it's telling their own story. They embrace GLs influence (Filoni especially) that the ST rejected.

    ST gonna be with the rest of the EU in 20 years is where my money is at. Characters likely will be reused eventually.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  23. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    That's patently not the case... When the PT came out, many people loved them, many people liked them and many people disliked them. They were only 'utterly despised' by a small section of the fan base. With the passing of time, it seems, I'd say that most views have met somewhere in the middle... and these days most fans seem to like the prequels. They understand what Lucas was trying to convey re. story, characters, concepts... they acknowledge their shortfalls and they appreciate how they opened up Star Wars exponentially. Conversely, although I'd say the ST has its share of fans, even those that like it believe it didn't particularly do anything new or made the best out of new characters, concepts etc. Indeed, I'd also argue that the ST appears to be much more polarising than the PT ever were... and it's my view that those that absolutely love TFA, absolutely hate TLJ (and visa versa). So I think there's a huge disconnect between the films that, no matter how much time passes, won't make them appear better. They may not be disliked as much as they are now, but certainly (IMO) appreciation won't increase.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don’t know that there are any “rose colored glasses”. People who hated the PT when it came out, still hate it. I was an ardent defender of it at the time, not as much of one now but I still like it.

    My kids grew up on TCW and never cared for the ST after the initial TFA hype. I suspect younger kids for whom the ST was their introduction to Star Wars will have fonder views of it.
     
  25. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    i was five, in Liverpool uk