ST Do you think more people will warm up to the ST 15-20 years from now?

Planning doesn’t guarentee a great story but it does guarantee a largely consistent story. And the ST’s inconsistency is so blatant that yes criticizing the lack of plan is in fact criticizing the absence of something that would have fixed an actual, big issue.

Having a plan and diverging from it when one finds better options is fine. Happens all the time. But one needs something to diverge from.

There’s also a difference between “making it up as one goes along” while still trying to remain true to what was already done and deliberately changing direction here there everywhere due to warring visions and indecisiveness.

 

This maybe true considering how easily the majority of the fanbase was willing to go along with TFAs wrecking ball/reboot approach without the alarms bells going off for what that would ultimately do to the OTs legacy to stories moving forward.

This is just me( A stubborn dude who would have been worried even if Lucas was doing them) speaking for myself....

But theres like next to no chance that Im going to be able to look past what happened in stories set after it...particularly with Rey and lord help me if they bring back Ben/Kylo.

Call me petty for holding a grudge or whatever...thats fine. Im not denying that they couldn't tell a better story with those characters and be successful with it...I just wont be there for it...and feel no shame in not trying to force myself to like it. I went to TFA and even TLJ trying to find some way to get on board with the direction they took the story in after what I consider a hall of fame ending in RotJ...Never saw TROS in theaters and only have seen certain scenes of it confirming my decision to skip it.

Because every time I see those two characters....I dont see or care about what cool story they might be able to do with them....all I see is a big fat reminder of what they took away from Luke,Leia, and Han....and the list I have is long and not easily forgotten.....at least if your expecting me to stay engaged in their stories/era.

The main protag of a ST had no business taking that much of Lukes Jedi Legacy by themselves....And they just couldnt resist putting yet another member of the Skywalker clan in a mask who betrayed everybody and was an enabler to mass genocide. Its the one two combo that makes it impossible for me to ever accept this story or any future stories built from it as a sequel to RotJ.

But at the end of the day its not the end of the world....though Im hoping for an MCU sized saga about the Jedi/Mando War in the old republic. I loved R1 and am hoping they hit it out of the park with the Obi-Wan show....If I had to call it quits because LF/Disney decided to go all in on the ST+ era Id be content....wouldnt be the first time Ive had to say enough is enough with a franchise that I love....I absolutely love Dragonball and DBZ but cannot stand Super and didnt like most of GT(Even though it had a few good ideas that were horribly executed)

 

@obi_kenobi_24

I’m not interested in Kylo either, I specifically left him out because I’m not interested in him, I’ve never liked him

 

TFA irreparably destroyed the OT3’s legacy only in it made Han and Leia’s only child evil. And even then, that was always in the cards, dating from GL’s plans.

Han’s death was inevitable; it does NOT excuse what Kylo did but Harrison wanting to die does excuse the narrative. Eps 8 and 9 could have easily salvaged Leia’s political legacy. And ofc Luke could have lived and trained his long-lost child with the trilogy ending in the promise of an even better Jedi Order.

 

Harrison did not want to die in TFA. He wanted to die in ROTJ. He's said he was up for more than one film. He joked that he finally wanted to do more and then they killed him.

 

“One more film” when there’s an upcoming trilogy translates to “I want to die in TFA.”

But he wanted his death to mean something. To have an impact. And eps 8 and 9 could have done that but didn’t.

 

That's nice but that's not what my post said.

 

I was a Finn fan and I can say that I won’t watch a new Finn TV show seeing the new characters again after the ST just does not interest me. The show may do okay but i think a lot of us would rather just move on from he ST.

 

Then I’m at a loss as to what you meant

 

Look closely. His post says “more than one film”, and you’ve quoted it as “one more film”.

 

OH sorry I misread!

Anyone have a source on that? Because I remember him being willing to only return for one more film.

 

Is he going to scream "Rey!" the whole time?

 

But in the end he had major impact in bringing his son back to the light. He forgave him and contributed to Ben's later redemption. He didn't die for nothing. In my opinion, TROS did a great job for this.

 

I liked TFA. I loved TLJ. But although I loathed a LOT of things about TROS, I will never forgive Abrams, Terrio and DLF for replacing the Skywalkers with a Palpatine. That has crushed SW forever for me, and I will avoid anything Terrio and Abrams do, and Disney, in the future.

 

It was a pretty awful redemption. Essentially, Kylo randomly remembered his father and that memory made him decide to be a Good Boy all of a sudden.

In essence, Kylo wasn’t redeemed. He just abruptly decided to stop being evil.

That TROS scene was just the TFA Starkiller scene but with Han just a memory and a different outcome. It *screams* “late-game reshoot because the studio demanded we get Ben Solo scenes. And, ironically, it makes Kylo into even more of a horrible person because it showed that Kylo could have become a Good Boy whenever he chose. He just didn’t because Reasons.

 

It's okay, lol. I do remember Ford saying it while promoting the film, although he may have been joking. He was saying how he really liked working with JJ. I'll try to find it.

 

Looking at the entire ST, I am firmly convinced Rian Johnson was the one who wanted Redeemed Ben Solo; Abrams did not.
He wasn't a fan of Anakin's story arc. He decided on having Ben kill his father, and wasn't happy with the 'hand stroking cheek' scene. Where Johnson got rid of the Darth Vader like helmet, allowing AD to show his expressive face, Abrams put it back. Where RJ had Rey and Ben interact and fight against Snoke's guards together, Abrams had them spend 90% of TROS fighting each other. I'm still surprised that Ben got a redemption arc at all, under Abrams' watch.
Harrison Ford in an interview, stated he wanted Han's death to 'mean something' - hence him stroking Ben's cheek, showing his forgiveness as the one thing to start his son's journey back to the light.
Abrams had Ben kill Han so he would be hated, and the GA joyfully cheer his demise and embrace his Angel in White (with a Satanic grandad) as the Ultimate Her Worshipfulness and Truest, Most Worthy, Heir to the Skywalker Name.
Nothing more complex than that; Abrams likes getting rid of OCs and replacing them with his own - he did with Star Trek.

 

Thanks!

I think it’s significant if Harrison was willing to do more films from the outset.

 

He (Ford) may have changed his mind once he filmed it. Who knows. He said he had a lot of fun doing it, and he really liked working with Adam. Other than breaking his leg, ha.

 

@JoJoPenelli
Ok, I basically fully disagree to your post. My view (on this scene respectively the movie) is super different as it seems.

 

I've seen you say this several times. What is your source?

 

As I recall, he signed for 3 (they all did) and Disney had to pay him not to be in 8 and 9 (wonder how that worked out for 9). I’m sure he would have liked to have worked with Mark again and he should have. If they were so fired up to kill Han, he could have died in TLJ after they were all reunited. It annoys the hell out of me that Ford gets blamed by some for them never reuniting when he didn’t write it and it’s not like the plot came down the mountain with the Commandments. (I also hate Mark’s idea that Luke and Leia should have been where Rey and Finn were. I already finished the ST pretty done with the Skywalker Twins. If that had happened, I would have really hated the both of them).

 

It's funny...rumour has it Mark 'wasn't happy' with TLJ...but at least RJ allowed him a scene with Carrie; that scene is especially poignant now considering Carrie's fate.
@alwayslurking .. I'm not lying, I have sources, but whenever I've posted links most people refuse to believe me anyway. Fact is, Abrams chose to make the last blood Skywalker a bad guy he wanted the audience to hate - and judging by this forum at least, he succeeded.

His track record shows he has a fondness for taking 'classic' stories and completely destroying them, then resurrecting them to suit him. This is what he did with Star Trek - he completely erased the original characters and replaced them with his 'own' versions, but in ST at least 'original' Kirk, Spock and company existed in another universe.
With SW...it was the 'canon' universe. And every one of the Skywalkers died trying to save their last heir. Who then died saving a young woman who....wasn't a Skywalker. But a Palpatine.

That to me, is the final insult. The Emperor won. And before everyone says: 'but Rey chose to be a 'good person'......for how long? She had a taste for violence. The original message of SW is 'blood is thicker than water'.

 

As we all know, if you're related to Hitler - you must be evil. A good wholesome message about biological determinism.