ST Do you think more people will warm up to the ST 15-20 years from now?

Dark Siders don't have empathy. or at least they ain't supposed too.

 

Bottom line - none of the directors/key story tellers involved in any movie except the cleanup of Rogue One had any serious thought in how everything fits together - not like fans do, no matter what theory fans support.

I believe RO turned out so well because in that cleanup its clear a lot of LFL folks who worked on TCW/Rebels were involved - hence the inclusion of many direct tie-ins to other GL/Filoni's work

The rest? Those directors were reveling in the freedom KK was offering. Not their fault - its just a bad plan for the Star Wars IP and it failed.

 

Never ever believe a director who claims the studio gave them artistic freedom.

All the Marvel directors do that on the regular and it’s well-known that all MCU movies are in fact micromanaged.

 

'Much anger in him - like his father' - Yoda, ESB.
And actually - that IS the message Abrams put across in the ST.
'There always was too much Vader in him', 'Kylo failed you, I won't,' 'My son is gone'.....Kylo was Darth Vader's grandson, so naturally he had to be a villain. What JJ did. Then in supreme irony...he makes his Pure Perfect Rey of Light....Palpatine's granddaughter. Therefore, the SW gospel according to JJ must mean Rey too will one day be a villain.
I honestly wonder if he actually watched his own film, TFA, before making TROS!

 

He gave up his life for Rey in TROS. Thats more then "he was a good friend".

 

LFL wasn't operating like Marvel or most studios originally - that was clear. Maybe Iger felt KK's previous experience was enough - IDK. But the production by LFL broke several norms - a keep factor that resulted in every production being a mess, and constant director changes and rewrites. Some things have been unique to LFL - and the lack of official BTS on most of their projects reflect it.

 

That doesn't change much does it. the actions speak more than words ever could. after all, in the same film where Obi Wan called him a good friend, that same good friend tried to kill him. literally tried to behead him on the death star.

Dark side actions and light side actions. we seen both.

So you ignore him giving his life to save another because you dislike the reylo implications.

 

In original trilogy Luke has a romantic idea in his mind about his father from what he know from people like his uncle, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. It isn't much, but it give the idea to the audience that Luke is thinking a lot about his father who he was told was a Jedi, like most young man would. There isn't any scene like this for Kylo Ren. Nobody thought to include at least one scene where maybe Luke is telling people how Ben was a good and kind boy before he became evil. That would at least tell the audience that there is something to try for rescue from the dark side. But all we see is Kylo trying to be evil, nobody knows anything about the Ben Solo, and so nobody cares.

 

Accept Han and Leia talked about him in a more positive light. sure they didn't say Our son was a great guy and then wink at the camera. but Kylo's insistence his son was gone and Hans insistence that his son is still there, suggests Kylo is hiding from who he was, the person who was his son is gone. but Han has faith that his son isn't gone. it doesn't really take much to work out the meaning behind it. you would have to ignore those words and assume Han is like yeah sure you was a little **** but i want you back out of ignorance! and Kylo is like yeah i was a little **** but im an even worse ****. which makes heaps of sense right?

 

What parent would say their kid is a horrible person? Parents are not the most objective when it comes to their kids.

 

Parents that are ashamed of their kids. But then i suppose thats also like suggesting "he was a good friend" line was crap because sometimes people ain't the friends we think they are.

 

This is difference between classic trilogy and sequel trilogy I suggest. The original manage to put in the story just enough to make the audience wonder about Luke's father and be intrigue to know about him, and understand why Luke felt he had to try save him. I don't think sequel trilogy manages to establish this so well about Ben Solo, and the story suffer for it because we can't relate to the motivation of Rey.

 

Because he is a dark sider at that time. dark siders are not good people. they are driven by power, rage, anger and whatever.

 

It's very clear that in order to accept a lot of the ST one has to work backwards from a belief point instead of the story leading you to anything.

 

You might not believe this..but I know someone who has never been close to his dad, they love each other but don't understand each other, his dad is all his sister because she went and had kids, his son is gay, there fore - no kids. They got along ok until his mum died; two years later his dad has changed his will and left everything, including the family home, to the grandchildren.
When his son, with more dignity and calm than I would have shown, asked him why he was told:
'You've got a place of your own.' His 'place' is a poky social housing flat; this is the man who spent four months nursing his father through pneumonia so the rest of the family could all go to work. His sister and her husband own their own house.
People are strange.

 

Yes. I think what happen was that Disney treated the Star Wars saga as a pop culture phenomenon, and were blind to any gaps in the narrative logic because there was expectation that audience is so familiar with tropes of Star Wars, that they would automatically fill the blanks. They thought that there is no need establish any character motivation, because they are the trope of the characters from the original trilogy and will do what they are supposed to do. This causes huge problem for sequel films because it does not tell its own story with logical outcomes for each characters action, it just goes through a series of tropes and expects that audiences will be familiar enough with Star Wars to be able to imagine and fill in the rest. This is why sequel films are so meta, they are preoccupied with been referring back to originals as pop culture.

 

Hard to argue with this. I do enjoy the films but the required exposition is thin.

 

It is sad because they create some characters with great potential such as Finn, but did not know how to build into a story. In the original trilogy, everybody has a motivation for what they do. Han is motivated by his love for Leia, Leia is motivated by dedication to Rebellion, Luke want to save his father, Vader want to overthrow the Emperor, Jabba want revenge because Han owe him money. Everybody has reason to do what they do, and their actions have logical consequence. What is Kylo reason for being evil? Why is Poe in Resistance? Why doesn't Finn want to save other stormtrooper like himself? Nobody knows anything about these people because they are such the shallow characters going through the moves only with no depth. It is so sad.