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ST Do you think more people will warm up to the ST 15-20 years from now?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    You know, that makes me feel a little sad, to be honest, because I never once thought RJ was being 'begrudging' towards his non white actors. In fact, I've spoken to several Asian people who were delighted with Rose's casting, and to one who was deeply upset by her treatment in TROS.
    I'm also bewildered that people think the central plot of the film was the bad blood between Luke and his nephew. The central plot of the film focused on Rey, who was chief protagonist, and Kylo, who was chief antagonist - just like ESB had at it's heart the conflict between Luke and Darth Vader. Hero/villain.

    I think RJ gave everyone plenty to do in TLJ, each had their own story arc - it was one of the things about it I loved. But, each to their own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
    TOASTEROVEN likes this.
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Even if Finn were white, there should have been a romance between Rey and Finn rather than between Rey and Kylo.

    The racist crap thrown at Boyega is not a “card” though, it’s real.
     
  3. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Or there doesn't need to be a romance at all. thats also an option.
     
  4. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Agree. I saw chemistry there at all. Romantic chemistry is what was between Han and Leia. There were three possible options for Rey in the film: Finn, Poe and Kylo. I saw nothing there with none of them. Sure, Daisy, John and Adam had some good performances in TFA. But that did not make me feel there was going to be a romantic thing between Rey and one of them.

    To me this is another of the many mistakes by Disney. I had not need to seeing another romance in the ST. Apparently is one of the boxes they needed to tick for the ST to capture the OT feel.
     
  5. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Replying to myself because AGAIN Last Jedi is trending on Twitter and AGAIN it's "you're a right wing loser if you don't slobber over TLJ as the bestest SW film ever." I am so freakin' sick of this nonsense.

    This right here. Want to know why the ST is a mess? This right here.
     
  6. paradigmes

    paradigmes Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2021
    Just to clarify. I was not meaning that Rian was begrudging towards his actors, but rather the addition of the plots that were not his main focus, which was his Luke vs Kylo story. It feel like he treat these other scenes with less care, because they were of less interest to him.
     
  7. PendragonM

    PendragonM Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    They could have been the only two people in the movie and there shouldn't have been a romance between Rey and Kylo. That Finn was right there and that their connection drove TFA makes it even worse. There is no romance in the ST and it destroys Han and Leia for kicks too, and ignores all the chemistry between the good guy leads for that cliche good girl/bad guy trope, made worse because the bad guy does nothing to try and win the good girl except attempt to kill her and everyone she cares about? C'mon now.
     
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  8. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I didn't see Rey with anyone after TFA. If she was following Luke's journey, she would train and go solo while fighting evil. But I think they were trying to combine the OT (Jedi journey) with the PT (Jedi journey with star crossed romance) The wheel in the sky keeps on turning. (I had to include that since I mentioned journey so many times)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  9. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    And which of course, was the one they eventually went with.
    @PendragonM ...sorry to burst your hate bubble, but TROS was not 'in love with Adam Driver'....he spent most of the first half masked, his character had no dialogue for the last 20 minutes, and after Rey drained his life force he was never mentioned again. Despite being the legacy characters' only heir.
     
  10. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Yeah, arguably Johnson should be applauded for having the foresight and wherewithal to cast Tran… but still be lambasted for limiting her and others non-white actors to strictly ancillary side-plots that pretty clearly resemble “tokenism.” Which makes Boyega and his fans justifiably perturbed at Finn being demoted.

    Tran being demoted in TROS was basically just a repeat of what happened to Boyega in TLJ, but on a smaller scale, since Boyega had a larger role in TFA and Tran only ever had a somewhat apathetically written supporting role in TLJ.

    Getting demoted *sucked* in both cases, but I always view myopic focus on Tran’s treatment instead of *both* to be suspicious and problematic.
     
  11. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I don't think Trans had a supporting role in TLJ. she had a supporting role in TROS. and how i see it. it could be argued Han and Leia's subplot in ESB could be considered a subplot. it doesn't really add anything. its just them running away from the empire while Luke trains. which is similar to TLJ in terms of the characters uses.

    Boyega didn't have a supporting role in TLJ either. he was part of his own plot. its just he wasn't part of the Rey plot. which is what people consider the main plot.
     
    TOASTEROVEN and sian1965 like this.
  12. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I know I am very much part of a minority group here, which is fine, as I'm registered disabled and on the autistic spectrum - so I'm a real life minority:D - but I honestly thought that RJ did everyone proud in TLJ.

    Why did Finn have to be Rey's sidekick? He was better developed in TLJ than either of the other films. Apart from the last five minutes he was practically nothing but comic relief in TFA, but once they had left Canto Bight....there was nothing 'funny' about Finn. He was in charge, and he also killed Phasma. He gave the rebels a pep talk, was willing to die for the 'cause' and was established as his own person....not just Rey's sidekick.

    I would like to point out that just because I like Kylo and have issues with JB's behaviour doesn't mean I don't like Finn - I thought he was a great character. I thought TROS would see him start a rebellion amongst the stormtroopers which would help end the FO.
    Instead that role was given to Jannah, who despite the actor's likeability... was completely unnecessary.
     
  13. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    FTFY
     
  14. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Hard same, ever since TLJ, fandom discourse has been absolutely cancerous and I hate that this is happening AGAIN. I go on Twitter to see a bunch of pompous "intellectuals" pat themselves on the back for understanding basic elements of the movie and compliment themselves for being so progressive by liking TLJ while everyone else is the devil.

    Then I come here and get blood-boiling takes about how Black people are over-represented or always play the proverbial "Race Card", how TLJ was actually the best story for Finn and the blacks are just overreacting.

    I'm so sick of this ****. I think the ST was god-awful representation for POC overall, and unless these white stans are willing to truly have that conversation and actually take Lucasfilm to task for screwing over their characters and actors of color, they should just stay quiet.

    I'm tired of the hypocrisy and licking Rian's boots at every opportunity, pushing over strawmen while ignoring legit criticism, etc.
     
  15. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    It’s depressing how calling a take racist is considered worse than actually making a racist take.
     
  16. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    What's that mean?
     
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  17. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    Or maybe people ...Like these movies and we should revaluate what we consider objectively good and bad....;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Five Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    We’re not required to and I don’t know that we should be encouraged to reevaluate any film we like and dislike based on what professional critics say. I remember when reviews were published in print newspapers—I rarely read them then and when I did I took them with a grain of salt. There is no point in letting another person with an opinion tell me what my opinion should be, even if they happen to get paid to write their opinion.

    A better move is to find someone who understands and shares your taste and see what they think of the movie, assuming you even want another opinion prior to watching it.
     
  19. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Why is calling something racist on this forum not allowed by saying someone is “using the race card” is?


    I was specifically referring to early critic reviews of certain blockbusters being uniformly glowing then reviews across the board - audiences and critics - suddenly becoming extremely mixed. WW1984 was another notorious example.
     
  20. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    I saw the title of a Star Wars movie trending today and I said "heck nah I'm not clicking on that" just like I do when I see things like "baby hitler" or " 'Boomer' trending with 'The Facebook' ". Definitely didn't think that would ever be the case. (To be fair, almost everything on Twitter is garbage. The only Star Wars related accounts I follow are some of the actors.)
     
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  21. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Twitter’s great problem is that it’s made for snappy takes rather than long discussions - forums are hardly an ideal alternative, but at least here, the format encourages more general discussion.
     
  22. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of TLJ. i have my issues with it like anyone. but its fair to say there are people who like the movie. and it would be wrong for anyone to tell those people they are wrong for liking it. thats the worst most insecure part of fandom to say you are wrong for your opinion because its different from another.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  23. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    The bad news is though that there is a (Hopefully) small but loud continent of TLJ haters who ARE well...Not great people in many, many, many ways, that honestly it's sorta poisoned the well in actual honest discourse about the film and sadly that probably won't go away so long as social media is a thing.
     
  24. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Nature of the beast, I'm afraid. SM, like everything, has two sides to it...on one hand it connects lonely people, and be a lifeline for them, on the other it's the perfect anonymous method of bullying. I'm not surprised DR and KT came off it, and that to my knowledge AD has nothing to do with it. There will always be people out there that behave unpleasantly, I was psychologically bullied throughout my school years, and it doesn't do anything for your sense of self esteem.
     
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  25. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I think that can be indicative of a lot of things.

    Maybe some shouldn't assume something about people, like that, based on dislike of a work of a fiction, like that, irregardless of a more negative side existing.
    I tend to see the issue, not in how a site is designed, but in how normal humans use it. I think that's the issue, how they choose to operate on it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021