Amph Doctor Who Discussion (Russell T. Davies returns)

They can get a bit overused, especially in the RTD era.

 

@BRE
Thank you. I'm grateful to have so many rad people here to talk about this amazing show with.
I didn't read your spoilers lol, trying to remain spoiler free, don't tell me what happens to William Hartnell.

Speaking of, I watched S1, E2 last night. Daleks! And Hartnell is interesting. Quite a contrast from the new Who.

I'm watching "Planet of the Ood" right now. Great beginning. They were so caring to that dying Ood. Only complaint so far with S4 is that Donna shouts and becomes hysterical too much, imo.

"The Fires of Pompeii" was a good episode. An interesting take on that famous disaster as if the Doctor had caused it in order to save Earth.

@A Chorus of Disapproval
Thanks, yes, that Baker blu ray set is in my shopping cart. I should just go ahead and order it. I love the S1 and S7 blu ray sets. The amount of extras is incredible.

In the meantime, I ordered 2 DVD sets to get more classic Doctors in my collection, as I am very pleased with the "Remembrance of the Daleks" DVD set that @darkspine10 recommended. Nice to have some McCoy to mix it up.

I ordered "Warriors of the Deep" and "The Tomb of the Cybermen".

I've never seen any episodes with either Troughton or Davison and these were available for a good price.

Are these arcs pretty good?
I'm assuming yes.

 

Fires of Pompeii has an influence on the future Doctor Who episodes. First, it guest stars Karen Gilan, who would later appear as Amy Pond. Second, it influences the appearance of the 12th Doctor.

 

Good to know. Thanks @PCCViking
I really liked "The Fires of Pompeii."
Such a creative take on real history.
This show always impresses me. From the Titanic in space to Mt. Vesuvius in a couple episodes. Wow.

And "Planet of the Ood" is amazing.
It's so bloody sad and so true too. Couldn't help but think about the holocaust with that and slavery in general. Such a heavy and painful topic and they handled it well imo.

"Who do you think made your clothes?" -The Doctor

Ouch. Donna didn't like that comment and talked back to him.
The Doctor was like "Sorry."
Must have hit her a little too close for comfort as it were.

And the Ood song of captivity. Omg, so sad. Those poor Ood kind.

@A Chorus of Disapproval
Thanks for the heads up about Tomb. I'm looking forward to watching it and seeing the 2nd Doctor for the first time.
I shall add "Web of Fear" to my list.
The Yetis look neat!

 

"Tomb of the Cybermen" is a good one, one of the best Troughton stories. It also features one of the best scenes of that era, when the Doctor has a quiet conversation with new Companion Victoria, who's still adjusting to her new life. (The previous story, which introduced her, was "Evil of the Daleks".)
"Warriors of the Deep" is...not as good. It has series continuity errors, the production didn't go smoothly, it owes a lot to other "base under siege" stories, and one scene (you'll know it when you see it) is frequently cited as a low point of the Davison era.
But, that's just my opinion. Feel free to differ with me.

 

The more exposure a monster has, the less threatening they become. How many times does the Dr. have to blow up every Dalek ever in space and time forever only for another fleet to show up before they get tired? What was the last good Dalek story? Post time war, I mean. Day of the Doctor is more of a prequel.

But anyway, as I understand it they have to use the Daleks every series or they lose the rights or something like that. So I understand why they do the Daleks even when they're not nearly as effective. The Angels was just Moffat going back to the same well (of which he had like 3 or 4) and it shows.

 

I'm always excited to see another Dalek show.

 

At the risk of committing Whovian blasphemy, I wish they'd just kill the Daleks off. You can't keep bashing them to the point of near-extinction, then bring them back in their next story stronger than ever. It makes the Doctor look almost as ridiculous as Batman does when he keeps letting the Joker pretty much get away with his crimes over and over again.
If I were writing a Dalek story...

Spoiler

:...the Doctor meets two bunches of Daleks. One is evil, as usual. The other are good, the descendants of the humanized ones from "Evil of the Daleks". And it turns out the latter group has developed far, far beyond their cousins. They send the bad guys away, but won't kill them. Why? Because the bad Daleks are conning the Universe. All their big doomsday plans are desperation moves that keep failing. Actually, they're surrounded by enemies, low on resources, and losing ground fast. Basically, the Doctor doesn't need to kill them. They're all but dead anyway. And the next story doesn't change the situation.

 

Dalek should have been the end of them. That was the proper end to both the monsters and the Doctor's arc regarding them.

 

@Kenneth Morgan
Thanks, I'm looking forward to watching them. Troughton seems to be well liked amongst the fans and a couple of people had him in their top 5 Doctors in the vids I watched on YouTube. Not that rankings matter, but I am curious to catch up on this show and it's always great to have a roadmap with something this vast.
I've heard of "Evil of the Daleks." Hope to watch that soon too.

As for Davison, I've only seen clips on Doctor Who Classic channel. He seems reserved. Part of the reason I bought "Warriors of the Deep" is cost, it was only $9 with shipping. Also, the aliens on the cover looked neat lol. I hope it's good, but I'm prepared to not love it. I know the show has evolved a lot over the years in terms of style and tone. I'm fascinated by the 2 Hartnell eps I've seen. The show was so different back then.

What I was planning to do collection wise, is to at least buy one DVD set for each classic Doctor. I'm referring to sets like "Remembrance of the Daleks" with McCoy. That was such a fun 90 minute excursion into classic Who and I like the minimalist packaging and they even had special features.

I'm gonna keep adding all the recommendations you all mention to my list. Thank you.

 

As much as I liked "Day of the Doctor", and as much as having all thirteen Doctors team up to save Gallifrey was a cheerable moment, I can see your point.

 

But then we wouldn't have gotten Parting of the Ways, which was a perfect capping off of Nine's character arc.

 

Maybe. But also I think Day of the Doctor would have been more effective if it had been the first Dalek episode since the 9th.

 

A whole lot of Whovians would like to see "Evil of the Daleks" soon, as well. As far as I know, only part two of the seven-part story is still in the BBC archives. The others got zapped as part of the BBC's then-policy of committing terrible crimes against culture. However, the story has been novelized, and a version exists where the missing stories were replaced by a combination of stills and the episode soundtracks (thank you, fans at home with tape recorders!). I haven't heard anything regarding an animated restoration.

And in case you haven't seen it yet, may I recommend "Horror of Fang Rock"? Very tense story. Serves as the finale for the show's Gothic Horror era.

 

@Kenneth Morgan
That's too bad about "Evil of the Daleks." I'm glad that some materials have survived.

I'll add "Horror of Fang Rock" to my list.

I just finished "The Sontaran Stratagem." That was intense. And yay Martha's back but they turned her into an evil clone! I sure hope Donna's grandfather survives.
Sontar-Ha!
About to watch "The Poison Sky."

 

Weeping Angels are good. But they would have been better if they left the power as simply not blinking. When Moff started adding all these other superpowers, they went a bit OT, personally.

Then there was the ultimate crime...

Spoiler

They showed them moving. No. You should NEVER see a Weeping Angel move!

 

"Blink" is one of my fave episodes so far. I've watched it twice, as well as "The Empty Child"; a rare two of the very few eps I've watched more than once.

I want to rewatch all of the 9th Doctor series soon but I doubt it will happen as I keep catching up.

 

I agree, there's only so many times a huge army of Daleks can be defeated without them losing their threat. There's a rule in sci-fi, I can't find the exact phrasing but it's basically that when it comes to villains - an individual is always stronger than an army, in terms of how it comes across. The best Dalek stories tend to be when there's one isolated.

As for the rights thing - as far as we know that's incorrect and a common misconception. It does appear that way since they've appeared in every series, but it seems to be more in aid of merchandising and marketing than an actual thing they're bound by.

 

@Dagobahsystem, Tomb of the Cybermen was my first Troughton as well It's a little flimsily paced and has some dodgy near-racist stuff, but the atmosphere is neat.

As for Warrior's of the Deep... well, to start, it's a sequel to 1970's The Silurians and 1972's The Sea Devils... might be a tad hard to follow without those... and it's infamously cheap... and I think it's just ok (has some very atmospheric music, I will say that):


As for other Davison recommendations, I'd say Castrovalva, Enlightenment, or Caves of Androzani, plus The Five Doctors is huge fun and nets you a bunch of extra Doctors

Hope you enjoy Remembrance too As for Evil, Episode 2 survives and can be watched, the remaining six parts only have photo reconstructions, based on images from the show and some nifty early 2000s amateur CG It's on dailymotion and decently watchable as recons go, not all stories are lucky enough to have 'telesnaps', photos of the actual broadcast. Some stories have to rely on about 4 promo pictures and lots of photoshop (looking at you Myth Makers or The Massacre ).

Look for 'Loose Cannon', they have photo recons for every missing story available (though there are professional animated recons on some of the dvds, Power of the Daleks is a great example of that and a fantastic story to boot) Depends how much patience you have for the format really, for some it's fine, but I'm sure struggling through still images and guesswork might be trying.

 

@Dagobahsystem
The Tomb of the Cybermen is my favourite Troughton, and one of my favourite Doctor Who serials in general. I love the thing to bits. It is based on those old British explorer-type films (like The Mummy, or King Solomon's Mines), so it tends to have the tropes associated with them, eg. foreigners=untrustworthy, which draws a fair bit of criticism today, but it's never really bothered me. The whole thing is cheesy but fun.

Warriors of the Deep is something of a misfire, but there are things to appreciate about it. Peter Davison always gives a serious, committed performance regardless of the quality of the material, and this serial is no different in that regard. I love the Davison era as it was the era that made me a fan, and the 5th Doctor is one of my favourite Doctors; it was a deliberate 180 degree turn in response to the perception that Tom Baker's Doctor had become too jokey and too indestructible, so Doctor number 5 was made very serious (despite Davison being known for his comedy parts) and more vulnerable than any of the Doctor's before him. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I love that Davison's Doctor is often on the edge of being overwhelmed and that gives the viewer a genuine sense of danger, but sometimes it just makes his Doctor look kind of weak - it's what happens when a show feels it's gone too far in one direction, and ends up overcompensating in the other. I still love Doctor 5, though.

 

Actually wait, I just remembered my first Troughton was The Invasion, not Tomb, oops Ah well, both Cyberman stories, easy mistake to make.

 

I only found this out because Capaldi was trending and I got scared that it was something else.

 

"The Tomb of the Cybermen" is enjoyable; glad I finally met the 2nd Doctor officially, he's cool, as well as Jaime and Victoria. Toberman is my fave character from this arc.

This is one of my fave versions of the main theme too. Although this story has some pacing issues, it was really fun to watch, almost like stepping into a time capsule to see how shows were made back then. I quite liked the whole vibe and am glad it is in my collection.

There's some nice special features on these discs too. This arc has a neat connection to ancient Egypt. And then the whole Cybernetics thing. DW always impresses with the wide range of influences, even within one episode. I also like how the packaging lists Story No. 37, Originally transmitted September 2-23, 1967, amongst other production credits.

Still waiting for "Warriors of the Deep" from this series of releases I ordered.
Thanks for the 5Th Doctor recommendations, Darsk.

Oh, I saw "Horror of Fang Rock" on the telly although I missed Part 1 which hurt my enjoyment of the story obviously. It looked pretty good, although I was kind of confused in spots due to it being dialogue heavy and having missed Part 1.

 

I just found out that David Tennant (the Tenth Doctor) is the son-in-law of Peter Davison (the Fifth Doctor). Never knew that.