CT Does anyone else actually like Anakin's "NOOOO" added in ROTJ?

Lucas was constantly revising the movies so there was nothing new there ever.

He simply ignored the arbitrary and meaningless finish lines that others always want to place on an artist.

The reality is that Lucas is hardly alone in this. It happens all the time with older movies as they become remastered into orange and teal.

http://notonbluray.com/blog/orange-and-teal/

http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.ca/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html

So anyone who wants the "real" version of Aliens or Terrance Malick's Badlands or any other number of movies isn't always going to find them easily in HD.

 

I'm aware other directors such as Cameron have difficulty leaving their movies alone, but Lucas took it to a level that hasn't been matched by anyone. The changes he made to the films before the 1997 SE are hardly noticeable apart from the change to the opening crawl in 1981, so the idea that he was constantly revising the movies is an exaggeration. Also the finish line is hardly meaningless, given the responses to the changes. Many would argue these time and money constraints are precisely what makes film makers creative. As such, the constraints are an important part of the film making process. It's ironic that a film maker who writes a story about attachment, has such difficulty letting go of his previously released work.

 

Increasingly, George Lucas sounds like some kind of maddening, mischievous mythical creature from some fairytale. Like some duplicitous Leprechaun "Sure it was always me intention to change me mind after the fact, so I have always been right in the first place, and never made a mistake to begin with. Ho, ho!"

 

I like him shouting it when he goes to grab the Emperor, but not before. I would think if the Emperor heard Vader shouting no, he would have punished or tried to kill Anakin.

 

Agree with the points above. I'm okay with it.

 

I find it hard to believe anyone would actually "like" it compared to how it was for 30 years. The people who defend it are almost always fans of RotS. Defending it is a way of defending the "Nooo!" from that movie. It's an abysmal change to a key iconic scene.

 

I like it. I accept it. But it wasn't necessary. If we never heard it again I and the movie wouldn't miss it. IMO.

 

Does the "NOOOO" make any meaningful sense?

The moment he casts the Emperor into the abyss is the moment of the Return of the Jedi.

Or does it mean that Vader has returned to such an extent, that the killing of any human being is something that shouldn't be done, even if it's the Emperor?

It almost does sound now as "NOOOO! (Look Luke what you had made me do...!)"

 

It's no different than when he cut Mace's arm off.

 

Bottom line: the scene was perfect the way it was. Lucas turned into a mad scientist with his movies in later years. His tinkering would never have ended.

 

Yeah, how dare he tinker with his own projects? How sacrilegious.

 

Other people worked on the films too.

Just because he could've, doesn't mean should've.

 

Yeah but all those people work together to realize a filmaker's vision so if GL decided one day to make some changes, most of them technical, do you really think they'll be angry at the changes?

 

No sir, I don't like it.

It kills the tension.

Without the "No", you don't really know what Vader's thinking or what he's going to do. Try to think back to the first time you saw it as a kid before the change was made. Weren't you sitting on the edge of your seat begging for Vader to save his son? Speaking for myself, I can honestly say I have never tried harder to read a facial expression from a stinking mask before. Not knowing exactly what Vader was thinking and feeling in that moment made it significantly more exciting. And then when he finally turned on the Emperor, wasn't it such an awesome moment?

When you add a No or two to the scene, it ruins the drama by flat out telling us Vader is going to turn against The Emperor. Oh, he's voicing displeasure, so he's good now. Also, it kind of makes the Emperor look stupid. I mean, come on dude, you didn't hear him say "No" just now? Isn't that a clue to maybe change direction on that force lightning like, you know, NOW!

When I heard this change was made, that was actually my "last straw" as I decided not to buy the Blu-Ray. Nope! You ruined one of my favorite moments. Sorry!

 

Personally I love the role reversal to the events of Revenge of the Sith. The circle is complete but I can understand why some people find it out of place or jarring.

 

Lucas didn't even direct RotJ. In terms of that film he's essentially the producer & film studio boss. Yet he's happy to make changes. If a producer or a studio did that to a film he directed what would he think?

 

This was such an awful change that completely butchered both the scene and the accompanying score. However, it was also the change that finally made me go out and seek the OOT, so at least there's a silver lining here.

 

While I don't exactly hate Anakin's "No", I find it it a bit unnecessary. Also wouldn't Darth Sidious hear and kill Anakin if he shouted before grabbing him?

 

I concur. His body language was sufficient for that scene.

 

Yes. Hired by him to work for him on his films.

 

Once again, just because he could, doesn't mean he should.

Not only does it disrespect others who worked hard on the movies, it also alienates a lot of fans who help make the franchise a huge success.

Flimaking isn't a one person endeavor.

 

I'm completely indifferent. If I had to choose I'd go with the old way because it is what I'm used to

 

So now it's even more perfecter!

And all knowing it was to achieve his vision not their own but he always acknowledges the immense contribution it makes.

The other point that gets lost sometimes is that tons of work goes into everything. People put months and years of work into something then Lucas might have it in the background for 2 seconds or feature it in a scene or two or multiple ones. He doesn't know and they don't exactly how it will all fit in the end.

Why is this even mentioned at all? The story of TESB and ROTJ are fully documented and well know so the argument that he wasn't the director simply doesn't work.

As the film-maker who wrote the story and script and oversaw every aspect of the movie and in particular on ROTJ was constantly on set overseeing everything and did the final cut and every choice made for the movie he was in effect the director with RM as the associate director.

So in reality it was a co-direction movie for the live shoot with Lucas taking over afterwards.

 

I know you'd die defending anything that even remotely relates to the PT, but I don't believe that you really think the scene has been improved. Not only does Vader babble on where he once committed that brave act of self-sacrifice with quiet dignity, now he stupidly risks warning the Emperor, which could easily get both he & his son killed. He begins spouting "no!" before he even grabs Palpatine. So lame.

You could say the exact same thing about a studio or a producer who hires a director & then later messes with their movie. A concept that filmmakers such as Lucas should detest.

It's not an argument, it's a fact. He didn't direct those movies.

Who are you talking about? Not Lucas that's for sure. He wasn't even on set for most of the production of TESB. As for writing, here's what the principal script writer of both movies had to say:
“What I worked on [for TESB] was a draft of the script George had written, based on the story George had given to Leigh [Brackett]. I don’t know what of Leigh’s draft survived into the draft George wrote. What George handed me was a very rough first draft, really somewhere between an outline and a first draft. The structure of the story was all there – it was the skeleton for a movie. What was needed was the flesh and the muscle.” --Lawrence Kasdan, "Cinefantastique" #28, February 1997.
"It’s a similar situation to the terrible time problem we had on Empire, but I think that this time I’ll have a much freer hand, because the Jedi screenplay that George gave me isn’t nearly as far along as Empire’s was." --Lawrence Kasdan, Starlog interview, 1981.
Let's remember that Kasdan is the only writer credited for RotJ. George was an uncredited co-writer for ESB. So to summarise & respond to your comment:
"He wrote the story" - yes, the broad strokes.
"and the script" - No, he co-wrote only one of the two.
"he oversaw every aspect of the movie(s)" - Definitely not.

What? You're trying to rewrite history & being very unfair & inaccurate in the process. The late Richard Marquand was the director. Fact. Just as Kershner was for TESB. Yes Lucas was present on set for much of the filming of RotJ but referring to RM as merely the "associate director" is wrong. Lucas mainly hovered around making sure the film stayed on budget following ESB's blow out in costs. He didn't interfere in the directorial decisions, unless they related to budget. In fact here are two quotes from RM following the making of the movie: “George was very good because throughout he would say, ‘Hey, you’re the director,’ shrug and walk away”
"If you are the director you are really the man who says what goes. There are always stories in the movie industry about directors getting pushed around by producers. But, all those producers are people who really don't understand how movies get made. You can only really have one person doing that job. The good thing about George Lucas is he knows that fact."
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Interview-With-Richard-Marquand-Director-of-Return-of-the-Jedi-June-1983/

Kershner had similar things to say: "George was the best producer I ever worked with. He left me alone and only came to England a few times."

Also, this is what Kershner said about the ESB SE: "When the film was released in 1997 and later put into DVD, I was very gratified that it was almost unchanged, except the sound was much improved, whereas Star Wars and Jedi had big changes."
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2010/10/irvin-kershner

As we know Lucas barely changed anything in the ESB SE. Probably bcs he saw that fewer changes were necessary. On the other he's on record as saying that ESB is in some ways his least favorite SW film. You'd wonder if his lack of tinkering was also out of respect for IK who was still alive at that time. Marquand on the other hand had passed away in '87. IMO Lucas should've left those two movies alone. He had the legal right to do what he wanted with them - just as studios have the right to mess with the work of their directors. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

 

If the studio or producer is the one who conceived the story/characters/etc or is basically the core of the creative process, sure. But that's rarely the case (if at all). They hire artist to make art and then market said art accordingly. Lucasfilm's case is unique. The artist was in charge of the company. Everyone knows this, it's no secret. So let's stop comparing apples to oranges.