PT Does anyone feel TPM is much more "grand" than Clones and Sith?

I think TPM was a case of GL finally getting to make SW the way he always wanted, and it was just a massive collection of concept art, story, locale and character ideas he was super excited about. Then AOTC and ROTS was him getting down to business and making the story focus hard on Anakin's arc, (no more time for 15 minute-long racing sequences) and progress in a way that brought Anakin's turn to the darkside and the clone wars to a close, and tying it all together with the OT.

TPM is actually my 2nd least favorite SW film, but I still respect it as a magnificent introduction to set the stage for the saga and a visual feast.

 

Rewatching TPM. I'm coming to better appreciate the mundane events that started the clone wars. Conflicts like trade embargoes very much reflect how real world wars begin. While there are pacing issues, I like that the whole SW tapestry took its time during Episode I in showing us how the conflict started.

 

TPM is the best Prequel movie for me thanks to James Luceno

 

I think what also makes it more rich is that it was the only prequel shot on film.

 

Short answer: Yes. I think Lucas got a lot of criticism for focusing too much on the galactic politics though. That's why he toned it down in the next 2 films. I liked it though. It really opened up the star wars universe.

 

Each prequel draws on different genres of early filmmaking.

The Phamtom Menace leans into Grand Historic Epic / grand fantasy films. The costumes alone are prime examples. The epic shots of Naboo, the parade, the pod race. This was the sort of spectacle that was impossible to pull off in movies after the mid 1960s because it was just too expensive. That’s what the new digital filmmaking tools George Lucas pioneered allowed to return.

Attack of the Clones has a major film noir influence. It’s also in part a road romance film. And it’s perhaps the most direct Flash Gordon / Buck Rogers of all the Star Wars movies.

Revenge of the Sith leans into classic horror. Especially german expressionist filmmaking and the classic universal horror films. Each act features a showdown with a different monster. Count Dooku, General Grevious, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader.


I would describe Ep.1 as more grand for sure - yes. But the other prequels have different elements in greater abundance than the phantom menace.

 

Just 15 minutes of flying through Coruscant looking for an assassin.

But to the OP, yes, there is a level of grandeur in TPM compared to the other two installments. Once we hit the other two installments, we're getting into the nuts and bolts of things. Starting to dig deeper into the inner workings. And the scenery reflects that. We start to see the grittiness and dirtiness of things. It's no longer the superficial look at only the "nice" areas of Coruscant. It's less of the lush greenery and pristine majestic palaces of Naboo. We're heading into a war. Things aren't as "clean" as they used to be. Not as "grand" as they were.

 

TPM is the most fun and self contained of the 3. Despite Qui Gon's death, things are fairly lighthearted. It ends on an upnote, and even though we know Anakin will fall it still seems a long ways away. My favorite to watch of the 3.

 

I never really acknowledged that general progression in aesthetic from I-III, but now that you lay it out-that's a good point. I will try to keep that in the back of my mind next time I watch thru those.

 

Lucas has always excelled at symbolism, and he uses it to great effect throughout his trilogies. He uses the aesthetic of the locales as symbolism, as well.

 

I also feel that TPM almost works as a completely standalone film, and while this is good in one way, in another, it feels very disconnected from Clones and ROTS. Lucas I feel truly downsized his vision and scope and probably changed a lot of elements around (notably Jar Jar and the political machinations) in response to the backlash. I think he felt he had to "dumb down" Clones and ROTS and make them more accessible. Either way, it leads to this weird disconnecting feeling, where like, it almost feels like Lucas disavowed his own film - It feels like you can watch Clones and ROTS and not really miss TPM. Everything from the 'feel' of the latter two films, to the scope, to the grandiosity of the costume and set design - it all just seems so much condensced in the following movies, like as if Clones and ROTS had suffered severe budget cuts.

I think TPM also stands out because it took 5 years to go from being written to being on screen. He did 3-4 drafts of the script over 1994 and 1995. It was filmed in June 1997, but Lucas had concept being developed as early as February 1995, and had ship models built as early as late 1995 and early 1996. He then spent a further two years after filming just on the special effects. So A TON of thought, effort, and planning went into TPM. Whereas Clones and ROTS' production schedules were a lot shorter and more compressed. I doubt there was much design elements for Clones for example that predated 2001, and Lucas basically used a first or second draft that was finished not long before filming began (whereas by the time cameras rolled in 1997, TPM had had a finalized script for a while)

It just stands out somehow, good and bad. A lot of the things we see in TPM are never much discussed again - Jar Jar, Gungans, Qui Gon (except for briefly in ROTS), only one real line about the Trade Federation in the following films. It feels like they're only loosely linked.

 

I actually view TPM as THE film he wanted to always make overall. I bet on some level the "need" to tell Anakin's story was more a hindrance to this wild universe he wanted to create than a benefit. TPM was him at his most explorative and inventive, and I think it captured a slice of what he wanted SW to be about from the beginning - just a slice.

 

Things are becoming more utilitarian as we're getting closer to the Imperial times. It's probably intentional.

Too much time for TPM might have caused lack of focus as Lucas got somewhat sidetracked with the new characters like Jar Jar and Qui-Gon Jinn instead of Obi-Wan and his relationship with Anakin. Hence the feeling of disconnect between TPM and the rest of the saga. The prequels don't seem like it's Anakin's personal story until Tatooine scenes in AOTC (or maybe not even until ROTS).

I'm sure any conventional filmmaker would've had Anakin's childhood as a flashback instead of writing a whole movie around it. In fact, George's friends all told him no one wanted to see Vader as a kid. Lucas, however, stuck with his rules of no flashbacks or big time jumps, for better or for worse.

TPM would've been received better had it been called "Star Wars - The Prologue - Adventures of the Jedi of the Old Republic". Much like Godfather III would've been less disappointing had it been called "The Regrets of Michael Corleone" (Coppola even renamed the film after the recent reedits).

 

Well, when I was 17, I liked TPM more than AOTC (because of the Pod Race and the final battle). Though, I always thought that TPM is better than TESB.

 

I like it. Good take. Agreed about Tatooine being when it becomes Anakin’s story.

I also like how it plays out this way. The story sort of meanders before locking the focus on Anakin. It shows us the larger universe and presents the illusion the story is wide open in how it plays out.

Also by sidetracking Obi-Wan’s relationship with Anakin in TPM it puts greater focus and importance on Anakin’s relationship with Padme. Obi-Wan is largely a stranger on the periphery for Anakin during TPM. This has repercussions later and helps push Anakin towards Padme. It also makes Obi-Wan more of brother to Anakin than a father figure.

 

The buildup to TPM was surely more grand. As noted earlier, it had more of a head start, beginning with Lucas starting Nov.1st 1994. Concept art being done in 1995. The story had time to evolve more as AOTC and ROTS had only a few years. The sets and practical effects seemed more real opposed to the overly used new digital cameras and cgi.
As for the story, it is more of a standalone starting so many years before AOTC thus all the characters are all in a different stage in life. If we were all writing the rise of Darth Vader, wouldn't you want the first movie to be more upbeat and innocent? I do wish we at least got the start of the Clone Wars and Dooku and Sifo Dyas as Jedi, but I do like the characters we did get. It was very exciting and fresh.

 

I remember being 12 years old and sitting in my Grandparents Garden reading TPM's Novelization.
It starts with young Anakin racing with his Pod through Beggars Canyon. And he has the feeling everything around him is talking to him. The Stonewals, the Pod he sits in, but he can't explain „it“.

And i thought that was just a great way to kick off the Story. Just a young Boy wondering about the nature of things. No understanding of the Force. No Obi Wan. No Lightsabers. No Clone Wars. No Darth Vader. Everything is on the edge of Tragedy but no one is aware of it.
And the Movie kinda menages to create the same kind of vibe to me, although Anakin is introduced in a different way. Plus the David Lean like Cinematagrophy and John Williams epic Score.

 

TPM is the most macro story of the Saga. It is the only movie from 1-6 that doesn't have a Skywalker as the lead character. Episode 2-3 are about Anakin, Episode 4-5 are about Luke, and Episode 6 is about Luke/Anakin. Episode 1 is sort of an introduction to the galaxy and tells a larger story and so it is less character driven in that respect. But that allows 2,3,4,5,6 to get more intimate with the characters because it does a great job of introducing the politics/world building of the galaxy. Trust me, people were not expecting that in 1999 and that is why it got so much backlash. Episode 1 was always going to age better in that respect because it is mostly setup, and fans were expecting a more complete movie like they did in 1977.

 

TPM shows the Republic at its grandest, highest peak just before the fall. By AotC the senate is in the clutches of Palpatine, as are the Jedi, who are being clouded by the dark side. Everything is still working for the most part in TPM. The Republic has an earnest chancellor who is trying to do the right thing even against mounting odds, and the Jedi are in control and keeping the peace, as the Sith are thought to have been extinct for a millennium. It all starts going downhill with Palpatine taking advantage of the corruption lurking within the heart of the Republic.

The world feels pristine, untouched by war and wide-open. There are a lot of statues and artsy designs, displaying an era of regality. We see beautiful nature on Naboo in the swamp lands and fields. By the time of AotC, war is approaching and the walls are closing in on the whole world. Everything is starting to get more mechanical and artificial. By the time of RotS, cyborgs are roaming around, signifying a clear transformation from natural to mechanical. Life has become robotic.

TPM almost feels like a Biblical epic. Anakin's virginal birth, the space chariot race, the wise master Qui-Gon looking like Christ, and Maul as the devil. Duel of the Fates might be the grandest lightsaber duel, even more so than Battle of the Heroes, and it has epic churchy music accompanying it. Qui-Gon's mystical teachings throughout the film and Maul's archetypal look help sell this feeling. There is simply something primal about their duel that cannot be described in words.

 

I like TPM because it is a stand alone story, where AOTC just feels to me like a big set up for ROTS.

 

I think to me at least being from the OOT generation TPM feels like a best of both worlds approach. With its sequels Lucas went digital in multiple ways. TPM was shot on film, and it features some of the most beautiful physical locations in the saga. Obviously digital effects were taken to a whole new level, but somehow it feels more like old school Star Wars than the other two. The story also shares a lot of DNA with A New Hope. So, it remains my favourite prequel. It mirrors Luke's journey in a lot of ways, in a different context, while still introducing a ton of new characters, locations, and an excellent mix of practical and digital effects.

 

Which ones are they? For me, it's hard to beat the Lake Como location in Ep.II as the most beautiful location of the saga.

 

I think the Lake Como location is very beautiful, but I view it as an extension of the designs, and locations used to create Naboo in TPM.

I think TPM gave us one of the most beautiful worlds in the saga with Naboo, especially combined with the amazing design for the underwater Gungan city.

 

Thats true - but a lot happens in AOTC and that movie to me really advances things. I still love TPM though. Its just a fabulous beginning to the saga. I get so excited to start watching the saga because I know it starts with TPM. Its just so good.

 

I feel it looks richer and colorful yes i would definitely agree there.