Saga Does anyone here see the Saga 1-9?

George Lucas sold the Star Wars franchise because he thought it was played out (which, after the prequels, it pretty much was). He pretended that he was developing a sequel trilogy and other seemingly lucrative projects, so he could get a better price for his company. It's a common tactic in business.

 

If he thought it was played out, why was he so involved in creating at least two TV series and in developing the tech necessary to make them a reality? And only when the live action TV series was made impossible due to factors outside his control did he turn to the development of the sequels.

Sorry, but I'll go with Lucas's own reasons for why he sold the company instead of an assumption that his goal was to maximize the value of the company.

 

Lucas chose to sell BEFORE he had the ST ready. He sold with some treatments, which to an extend were used for the ST. If he wanted the ST to be the way exactly as he wanted he would have to make them themselves. As @jaimestarr pointed out he wasnt new in the business and knew what he did. Neverthenless what fans say the treatements of Lucas WERE used and developed into what the ST is. Of course its not exactly and 100 % what Lucas would have done, story and design wise but a lot of elements of the Lucas treatments are known to were included and develped for the ST.

We obviously have a different understanding about fan fiction. From your POV every MCU Movie, every Jurassic movie, every TMNT show and movie...EVERYTHING without the original creator is fan fiction. Thats new...

I think your understanding about that topic is quite exclusive.

What about all novels and games released while Lucas was in charge? What about the old CW show, about the Holiday special? What about Shadows of the Empire, a official multimedia release including a soundrack and novel and the offical story between Ep V and VI at the time?! All the Legends Novels released when Lucas was in Charge and were said to be the OFFICIAL Continuation of the story? All of this is fan fiction?

Maybe because you try to undermine a big part of the SW lore into unauthorized fan fiction based on your personal preferences...

I understand where you are coming from and I get it. I loved when Lucas was in charge and shaped the GFFA to hi vision. For me this guy is a genuis. But he can't be here forever?! So there are two options: a) SW dies with Lucas retiring OR b) SW grows beyond Lucas and gets its contiuations without him. I choose b because no matter I love Lucas and his visions, I love to delve and dive into new SW too. So yeah I quiet get a kick out of the new content the same way I got a kick out all the EU content when Lucas was in charge. All the same, all official, all legit STAR WARS.

LOL...yeah no. Rumors of him talking to Hamill and Co started way before the Sell...

 

Again, Lucas is a TITAN in the film industry. If he really wanted his ST to be made, it's would have been done.

Think about it: GL could have made sure that there were contingencies/provisions/contractual language in the sale to Disney that would require them to follow his certain outline or script. This happens ALL the time when people sell intellectual properties.

There is no conspiracy or duping of GL that occurred. He simply chose not to make his ST, so they weren't made.

So, according to you, the movie Goldfinger is fan fiction? Okay. This simply boils down to you using the term fan fiction in a way that is incongruent with the actual definition.

Again, if Lucas chose the story for the sequels to be told, why weren't they? Making a choice is an action and Lucas's choice was to hand pick his successors and walk away from it all.

Isn't Star Wars constantly being redefined? SW is not some stagnant thing. From 1977 onwards the franchise is constantly evolving. Lucas made sure that the franchise didn't end with him. You don't like that? I love the idea that the galaxy far, far away will continue on.

It's less about my personal preference and more about your refusal to recognize that (to the world in general) the definitive version of Superman is actually not the version that the original creators (Siegel and Schuster) first unleashed upon the world.

Superman, like Star Wars, is constantly evolving/changing. As the years go by, more and more artists/creatives add to the mythos of both of these properties.

As you seem to be suggesting, what is "definitive" can be a personal preference and depends upon whom you ask.
If we are simply arguing over personal preferences....we can stop now as I cannot fault you for liking what you like.

 

Isn't SW fanfiction of The Hidden Temple and Buck Rogers?
Everything these days is fanfiction of something that came before.
The Inheritance Cycle is a Star Wars/Harry Potter/LOTR mash up.
The Lion King is Hamlet with Lions.
The Lord of the Flies is a Book of Genesis fanfiction.

 

Don't forget Flash Gordon, DUNE, Kurosawa movies, and EE "Doc" Smith's Lensman pulp novels.

 

It's not fans saying, Lucas' story treatments were not used, period. This was not only confirmed by both Lucas and Iger, but anyone can read what Lucas has revealed so far about his ST and confirm that there's nothing in common. It's a completely different story altogether.

It's not new. Any adaptation, remake, reboot, whatever is inherently apart from the original. Nobody argues that they mesh together, or pretend that they are part of the same reality.

Yet that's what this topic is asking. That's what's being questioned in regards to Lucas's movies and Disney's. If people see it all as one or not. I do not.

Yes, it's licensed fan fiction, no different from Disney's works. I've said it before.

The fact that they are officially licensed products doesn't mean they are part of the same "world". Lucas himself has always set them apart from the beginning.

Unauthorized?! When did I do that?

Okay then.

 

Hmm. This doesn't seem correct. Example... Ghostbusters: Afterlife.

Using your logic, you are saying that "nobody argues" that it "meshes together" or "pretend(s) that (it) is part of the same reality as Ghostbusters 1 & 2?

Ghostbusters 1 was written/created by Harold Ramis & Dan Ackroyd. It was directed by Ivan Reitman.

Ghostbusters: Afterlife was not written and/or directed by any of the original creators.

Yet, you can bet you butt that Ghostbusters: Afterlife is a sequel to (meshes together with) Ghostbusters 1, is in the same reality, and is treated as such.

Maybe I'm missing your point? Misquoting you?

Obviously, you are welcome to create your own canon/reality, etc. Yet, it's another thing to suggest that your reality is THE accepted canon and the rest is fan fiction.

For example: I consider the first two Terminator films as THE "real" Terminator films as they are by James Cameron. The sequels aren't as impressive and dwindle in quality imo. In my head they are like alternate timelines.

Note my phrasing: In my head. It's my canon...not the world's canon. It's a personal distinction that I make...that's it. I would never begrudge someone that likes any of the Terminator sequels and/or use dismissive/intentionally obfuscating phrasing like "fan fiction" "not authentic" etc.

 

Have you seen the two Outer Limits episodes (Soldier and Demon with a Glass Hand), that Cameron almost certainly based The Terminator on? Harlan Ellison sued for plagiarism, and that's why; Acknowledgment to the works of Harlan Ellison, is in the opening credits.

 

Which reason is that? He's given several. His latest being that he wanted to spend more time with his family. You know, the thing every polititian says when they have absolutely no intention of spending more time with their family. George is a mediocre talent, but a very shrewd businessman. He was paid 4 billion for Lucasfilm, half of which was in Disney stock (the stock is now worth nearly $140 a share...do the math on that!). He'd have been foolish not to have pumped up the value of his company before he sold it, and George Lucas is no fool.

 

Yep. And Earth is flat.

 

Would you prefer middling?

 

Maybe Earth is slightly curved.

 

I'm saying that people (and I'm generalizing, no need to get pedantic when I'm trying to get the point across) don't pretend that Ghostbusters is a trilogy of movies, even if the new movie was made as a sequel to the existing ones.

I'm sure there will be always some would argue that they see it as a trilogy, just like some would argue that Lucas's hexalogy and Disney trilogy are a saga, or Lucas's hexalogy and Zahn's Thrawn trilogy are a saga.

Other people care about integrity and authenticity instead of whatever happens to be the latest licensed product, and thus put the authority on the original artist/author.

If tomorrow someone made a The Lord of the Rings novel set after The Return of the King, "nobody" (and again, I'm generalizing) would pretend that The Lord of the Rings is a tetralogy of books. Those that would (and they would be free to do so) wouldn't find it strange/odd/undermining that a lot of people wouldn't.

It's not my reality. It's the author's reality. I didn't create the fictional world. I don't have, nor pretend to have, any authority over it. But it's in him that I draw the line. You're free to ignore the author's reality and accept the corporate, licensing reality. It seems that's where you draw the line.

Is there a world's canon?

Because there were several. Hence why I used plural.

Let's see: should I believe in George Lucas's own perfectly logical and understandable reasons for why he sold the company or believe in @BlueYogurt baseless accusations and insinuations about Lucas' character and why he sold the company?

Decisions, decisions...

 

A mod on here once said in his signature

"fans fighting over which bit of fiction is more fact over another is the definition of fandom insanity"
or words to that effect. It was over 15 years ago.

To be honest I don't really understand the bemusement from others on @Alexrd 's stance on it.
Does it really matter if he considers anything other than the Lucasverse as fanfiction? does it somehow affect your own enjoyment of it?

 

Nope. Really couldn't care less. I'd like to ignore everything that happened after ESB, myself.

 

good, you have a healthy viewpoint on this then.

 

Yeah, but there's really no point coming to a forum like this if you're NOT going to argue over obscure, and nonsensical details.

 

I disagree with that! Vehemently!

 

I guess maybe I don't get what you are stating/claiming? I gave you my personal feelings on the Terminator films. I view the first two as "the real" Terminator movies. That said, I know that is just my own head canon. I know that there are 6 movies in the series and, for better or worse, each one is a valid/authentic entry in the series despite the fact that they are created by different people, etc.

These are just subjective personal opinions. If you feel that, for example, the James Bond films have no integrity or authenticity....you are welcome to you personal opinion. Yet, I wonder if this is a widely held belief/consensus? Are the Harry Potter films not the same connected series despite different writers, directors, etc.?

So, as an audience, we are to adhere to an authors intent? Ian Fleming disowned/disavowed his book "The Spy Who Loved Me." So, we pretend it no longer exists as canon?

As we know, George Lucas famously altered the OT trilogy to the Special Edition...his preferred version. Which version is more authentic/definitive in your eyes? The original? The version Lucas altered?

You tell me. It seems like there is a generally accepted definition of what is canon:


From wikipedia:
In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in an individual universe of that story. It is often contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction. The alternative terms mythology, timeline, universe and continuity are often used, with the first of these being used especially to refer to a richly detailed fictional canon requiring a large degree of suspension of disbelief (e.g. an entire imaginary world and history), while the latter two typically refer to a single arc where all events are directly connected chronologically. Other times, the word can mean "to be acknowledged by the creator(s)".

From Merriam Webster:

a: an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture
b: the authentic works of a writer
c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works

You seem to adhere only to b while ignoring completely. No?

 

This is going in circles:

Your authority is the license holder, mine is the creator. That's the difference. It's not hard to understand.

 

Fair enough, let me remind you of your statement that kicked this off:

"It's not a slippery slope to draw a line between the works of the original creator and the licensed/corporate works that he had no involvement with. If there is a line to be drawn, it's that one. Be it with Star Wars or any other franchise/series."

I apologize if this was always intended to be your statement indicating your personal preference and not an example that others should look to adhere to.

 

A rare but still unique kind of Star Wars fan right here

 

I believe the true Star Wars saga consists of Episodes 1 to 6. Everything else is "Legends" to me.

 

I've never been too concerned with canon, non-canon, in the time line, not in the time line. I just like good stories set in the Star Wars universe. There are some awful, some good, and some great ones. One of my big beefs about Star Trek fans were their insistence on remaining within a timeline. Always complaining that this shouldn't go there because of x, y, or z. I felt it really put handcuffs on the writers. I hope that doesn't happen with Star Wars. When the Star Wars EU was first beginning (Marvel, Splinter of the Minds Eye, Han and Lando trilogy's, news paper comic strips, short stories), it didn't matter if the stories conflicted. The understanding was that it all happened a long, long time ago so they may have got it wrong. That's where I'd like Star Wars to stay. Anything goes beyond the original 6. Reboots, rewrites, conflicts in timeline's, I'm all for it. Just keep some good stories coming. I would rather they did not fade away because I want to see another Star Wars movie.