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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Discussion Does anyone think Darth Vader will *not* be in Episode VII?

Discussion in 'Archive: Disney Era Films' started by MiamiJedi, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    And I feel fine. :p
     
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  2. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Lucas haters will always find a way to condemn him. But the fact its Star Wars came from his heart. It was something that he dreamed up. Not only did he create this awesome universe, he changed film-making (for the better) for everyone. That is a fact, not opinion. And yes, he made a business out of it, but it doesn't change the fact that it came from his mind.

    Lucas essentially created "merchandising". Everyone knows the story (and if you don't go google it) that Lucas told 20th Century Fox he didn't want some big paycheck, he wanted the RIGHTS to HIS creation, so he could control it as he saw fit. Remember, "his creation", remember "his control".

    That was the beauty of Star Wars, that essentially it was a B rated film mostly personally financed. I vomit my guts out everytime I see a new blockbuster film and every two seconds I see product placement: Sony, Nokia, GM, Pepsi, etc. Anybody that can enjoy a film with that much product placement should be ashamed of themselves. And people have the audacity to say "corporate" doesn't mess with films? Luckily some film makers don't bend to that, but then they usually aren't blockbuster films.

    I think the point is now Star Wars is controlled by Disney, not the guy who had the heart to create it and control it.

    To Disney "it's just business", and to Abrams it's just another job. If the executive board over at Disney thinks adding Darth Vader to the new films will bring more ticket sales to the general public, then they will shoehorn him in it. So what if you piss off 10,000 fans? You have 100 million people in the general public going to see it, and the dumb fans will still go too. Win win.

    People need to learn economics. Everyone knows mom and pop stores are more intimate and more personable, but they can't compete with a corporate machine. Even though Lucas made billions off of Star Wars, it was still a "home grown" corporation. Disney is the Wal-Mart of film-making.

    And for those saying "lets just wait and see and not scrutinize just yet", I hope you don't vote in America. I mean do you wait for the president to be elected then see what he does? Or do you follow his campaign BEFORE the election and ask questions? I'm not a lamb. I'm going to ask these questions now, whether or not I can effect the outcome.

    Long story short is I hope Vader is not in the ST. Not at all. Not in a flashback, not in a suit, not as a clone and certainly not as a copy cat killer.
     
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  3. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Yes but Lucas, the man who created Star Wars, put his trust in Disney and Kathleen Kennedy to protect what he created and allow it to live on past him. I trust his judgment on this and I believe Disney and Kathleen Kennedy are smart enough to realize that a quality product makes them a lot more money than a crappy one.
     
  4. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Darth Chiznuk, I have to agree with you. Even though I do come off as pessimistic (I just say logically objective) what you said is what I'm hoping for.

    I think Lucas hired Kathleen Kennedy as CEO as she will follow his wishes. I also believe that behind the scenes they will be talking and he will greatly influence her. If she can keep Abrams inline, we should be golden. She can always report back to George that he's going off the tracks and Lucas using Kathleen Kennedy as a proxy can keep the film control.

    My only other fear is Kathleen Kennedy can't battle Iger and his executives. My hope is they will just let her run it..

    However her decisions to axe Clone Wars does shake my confidence in her. She obviously bent to the will of Disney in efforts to "shut down" all other Star Wars productions. Even though TCW was winning awards and bringing in millions of viewers. What is done is done.
     
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  5. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I absolutely agree that Iger and the other executives need to stay out of the way and allow the creative people do their job. I'm optimistic that they will because it has been their history to do this with Pixar and Marvel. I'm very optimistic about the ST because Lucas and Kathleen were working on it long before Disney came aboard. They were the ones who hired Michael Arndt and Lucas himself wrote the treatments. I believe Kennedy understands and respects Lucas' vision for the ST and will do her utmost to see it realized. That's all I can ask for from those on board.
     
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  6. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I am sorry, but I just lost all respect for the guy over the years. He may have been a nice independent filmmaker back in the day but nowadays he seems a completely different person. Additionally his political views are horrible (I can PM you a link because linking it here would lead to far). If I am a hater I have damn good reasons for it.

    What about PR? Disney knows very well that they could lose a lot of support in their customer base if they do anything overly stupid like resurrecting Vader. Star Wars is too beloved and iconic to take risks like that. People would never-ever forgive them and they know it.
     
  7. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    I'll risk going too far and encapsulate my problems with Lucas' political views in this simple sentence: you don't get to denounce corporate culture (and associate yourself with politicians who do) when you're a part of it yourself, and you don't get to denounce the elite class (and associate yourself with polticians who do) as if you fail to realize that you yourself are the elite and will not be excused from it.
     
  8. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I don't see how Lucas' political views have anything to do with whether or not Darth Vader will be in the ST.
     
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  9. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Agreed. There was a valid point to this side conversation at one point, but it has since crept into "off-topic" territory.
     
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  10. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Hell, Chiznuk, I'd LOVE to get back to the point of this thread. But right now we've got a case of people unjustly slamming Disney for crimes it hasn't committed and unjustly praising Lucas when he's no different or better than anyone else in the corporate culture. I'm not the one that took this thread off the rails, but I'm certainly not going to leave such innaccuracies unanswered. Lucas is not God and Bob Iger is not Satan.

    That said, no, I honestly don't think that Kennedy (and it is KENNEDY who will be making the overall decisions, not Iger) would put Vader into the ST simply because Iger told her to do so; in all likellihood, if Vader is going to come back, it would be because Lucas put it in his outline that he gave to Iger for Arndt to flesh out, and I'd like to hope he would only do that if he felt there was some story reason to justify it (that at least became the case with Darth Maul in TCW). If anything, Iger and the Disney board would be far too conservative to push that kind of idea. They, at least, tend to embrace the concept of common sense.
     
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  11. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Thank you for reintroducing Vader to the conversation. ;)
     
  12. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Pfluegermeister I absolutely agree with you that Disney has done nothing more than what Lucas himself has been doing for years. Namely making money off of Star Wars and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I'm very happy that Star Wars is with Disney who can now move it past Lucas. I also agree that the doom and gloom is a bit too much sometimes.

    Now with that said, I don't want to get the thread off topic again so no I don't think there is any way Darth Vader will appear in Episode VII. Arndt is very much in demand right now and I don't see him being persuaded to do SW if that was one of the requisites.
     
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  13. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2004

    I completely agree with your last paragraph. 100%. But I can't give it a like because it still comes across you think Disney may actually put Vader in just for the money, and there we disagree ;)

    This
     
  14. phatdude1138

    phatdude1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2005
    For the most part I'm playing the devils advocate in this thread. Being a Lucas and PT supporter I do feel the need to come to their defense. Staying on topic and trying to be optimistic, if Disney really wants to pimp out Darth Vader for profits, then do it as a spin-off. My assumption is that is almost a guarantee.

    How I feel about Vader in a spin-off is a whole other story. Mainly since there would be a lot of strict continuity writers and directors would have to stick too, and for the most part they don't like to work with constraints.

    Let's just hope these leaks/rumors about Vader are not true..
     
  15. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Actually it is not his leftist views that I take issue with. It is something else that he has said in a times interview.
     
  16. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
  17. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2004

    Sorry.... have I missed something? I thought it was just this thread?
     
  18. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    I'm 99% positive Vader will play a big role in the very first of the spinoffs.
     
  19. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Lack of awareness of Vader's redemption has lead to non-fans expexting Vader to be in the ST, and rumors that reflect that.
     
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  20. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    A Vader spin-off is actually a big no-no for me. I can take a supporting role for him in one of these stand alones but I really hope they don't go for a full on Vader film. I just think his story should remain in the six Episodic films. But I agree it would be better than having him appear in the ST.
     
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  21. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I don't mind a Vader spin-off, just don't have Vader and Obi-Wan meeting between ROTS and ANH. Other than that I am fine.
     
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  22. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Yea, Obi getting away from such a confrontation would be dumb.
     
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  23. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    This all makes wonder about GL's 1983 ST vs. GL's 2012 ST vs. Disney's ST.
     
  24. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    You're sure making it hard as hell to stay on topic. Mods, grant me patience... [face_praying]

    But fine, let's see what I can do with this AND try to keep on topic: to start with, as a matter of fact, I DO vote in America. PROUDLY. I've done it from the moment I was legally able and I've never missed an election. And I've never done it without carefully scrutinizing BOTH candidates; it's called responsible research. It's what enables me to say something with the satisfaction of knowing I'm backed by facts; not just personal conviction, but conviction supported by FACTS. If we take you up on your analogy and apply the principle of voting (an analogy which was your choice to use, not mine) to such issues, I'd simply state that you've already voted in your head long before election day, based entirely on your personal prejudices, and without asking ANY true, substantive questions at all. Instead, you're automatically ASSUMING that Disney is going to do something (in this case, include Darth Vader) over the objections of the needs of the story, of the fans, and of basic common sense - just because, according to your preestablished thinking, they see only dollar signs, or maybe just because they can - based entirely on your preconceptions, opinions that are entirely undermined by the facts. If that's not being a lamb, then what WOULD you call it? [face_dunno]

    People have the right to any opinions they want; but if it's not an opinion backed by fact, it's not worth very much - if anything.
     
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  25. Toonimator

    Toonimator Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Nah, him getting away wouldn't be the dumbest part... him leaving Vader alive, THAT would be the bigger sticking point. It's understandable to a degree how he could just walk away from Vader in ROTS; he couldn't bear to deliver the killing blow, but figured Anakin was dead & gone, catching fire as he did on the edge of a lava river.

    It'd take probably too many cliche turns to have Obi-Wan be able to defeat Vader yet NOT kill him in a second encounter, or to be forced to flee and manage to do so successfully.

    In any case--it's something we really don't need to see. Better that their last encounter before ANH was ROTS, no need to 'TCW it up' by having them clash repeatedly in the 19 years between like Anakin & Dooku did.