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    TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels (or any show vs any other show) bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

Full Series Early Star Wars (1974 - 1979) Influence in Rebels

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Dark Lord Tarkas, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    I want to see that SO bad but the link is not working for me! :_|
     
  2. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Oh, and as a side note, this isn't the version of the transporter the model in Rebels is based upon:

    [​IMG]

    This is:

    [​IMG]


    Although it is still undersized, this is true of most (if not every) SW toy vehicle ever produced, really.

    It's still larger than the other model shown above. Rounded in the front and hollow in the rear (underneath the orange cover and twin-canon area). I haven't done an official count with my model, but even taking the exposed racks out of the equation, I'd wager there's still more than enough room for a half-dozen or more Stormtroopers to be carried within the interior of the toy's shell.

    Here, I took some pics:
    This one is for size reference:
    [​IMG]


    This one shows the cockpit area; roomy enough for two pilots (one on each side):
    [​IMG]


    These next few shots demonstrate what I think is perhaps a source of some misunderstanding. In the back, there is actually a hatch:
    [​IMG]


    Which opens to reveal...

    The space for the Imperial troops being transported. And even on this undersized toy model, it's plenty big enough, I think:
    [​IMG]


    Depending how you wanted to arrange them, you could actually fill the thing with a good-sized force of troops. In this photo, I just tossed in six figures (with room still left to spare):
    [​IMG]


    But as you can see from the manner in which they've come spilling out, they were just a disorderly pack of drunken rabble, taken into custody after starting a scene at the local cantina:
    [​IMG]
    "Nothing to see here. Move along, move along!" :D
     
  3. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Its called a troop transport not a prisoner transport, so am afraid that does not work officially for its intended purpose. Looks like a bunchve poor excuses cause you guys may be excited about seeing this EU Kenner nostalgic toy in a cartoon and accepted at a higher level of canon,lol. That old Kenner vehicle was a sales gimmick to buy 6 or 8 Stormtroopers to make it look cool, otherwise it was an ugly piece of crap. So I hear ya, but at the end of the day it is still a crappy small for its intended purpose as an APC or any type of ATV vehicle really even back then the toy sucked it as it was glorified mini-rig before they started making them official. The storage compartment looks good for dumping a few dead bodies but thats about it. It makes for a poor ATV and the newer toy version toy is not much an improvement cept the front is built more like the Turbo tank. A good transport vehicle which this thing was supposed to be should be built more along the same lines as the Star Tours shuttle(able to have plenty of room for troopers and gear inside and have appropriate defensive /offensive armament which even this shuttle had quite a few guns. If Hasbro could just add some extra stabilizer wings, a few extra guns and gun turret that shuttle would make a very good military APC.

    Had Hasbro been allowed to make a full sized one complete with interior seats for atleast 12 troops to be inside to sit and it actually had good defensive/offensive armament I would like it, but as it is, its junk. The designers of Rebels get a few points for adding the front ball mounted blasters but the firepower looks short range and only good against exposed infantry if that thing went up against Rebel armored turrets and attack speeders or CIS remnants it would be destroyed in a second.

    TFU updated version Kenner concept trooper transport would've made for a better vehicle onscreen and superior toy, and if it was around the size of the CW Gunship it would be off the hook..
     
  4. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Well, yeah, I am excited to see an old toy from my youth reappear, but I don't know why that's something to 'lol' about? [face_dunno]

    But as far as the "poor excuses" are concerned? Nah, come on. Nobody's trying to gussy it up. A troop transport with areas designed to carry prisoners is not something anybody here just dreamed up to try to make the thing sound any better; to justify it's use in the show. That's just silly. That was the work of the Kenner/Lucasfilm outfit, some three-plus decades ago; how they described it. Your beef is with them, not us. :D

    Personally, I'm only trying to help in some small way (and encourage discussion) by accurately passing along the available information to those fans who were unfamiliar with the thing before now.


    Anyway, for the sake of that discussion, as to the prisoners, and the moniker "troop transport"? Regardless of whether the ITT contains the words "prisoner transport" in it's designation, transportation of Imperial prisoners has always been an integral part of how the vehicle's description -- it's stated purpose -- all the way back from the very beginning (whether one thinks that means it works for it's "intended purpose," or not). Reading the descriptions from back in 1980/81 bears this out. So does the wook' entry.

    And it's pretty clear from the new clip that the Rebels team is not only aware of that fact, but are seeing to it that the tradition is kept alive in the new series.


    Of course it would! Who's denied that? Heck, man, I said myself that I think the thing is ripe for ambush by the small crew of the Ghost!

    I get that you may not care for the design; that you prefer the gunship as a means of conveyance. But again, I feel as though you misrepresent the role of the ITT. From everything we've been led to believe, the Imperial Troop Transport isn't really meant to go "up against," well... anything. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest this thing belongs on the field of battle, withstanding assaults from overwhelming numbers of enemy infantry, let alone artillery, air support, or anything of the kind.

    On the contrary, the ITT has been 'witnessed' (in the very few instances we've actually seen the thing before now) used by Stormtrooper units patrolling territory they ostensibly are already in full control of.

    Not every piece of military hardware carries with it the same purpose, and there's a difference between fully armed and armored offensive assault craft and vehicles designed to transport soldiers, alone. Naturally, the Empire has plenty of resources put into other designs meant for the kind of feats you envision. They certainly exist. The ITT just ain't it.

    It's a transport. Plain and simple. Designed to get troops (and prisoners) from point 'A,' to point 'B.' And I don't see why it's any more incapable to serve that purpose than any of our IRL examples:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In fact, the ITT kind of reminds me of a GFFA mix of these three different military transports. The utility of the first, the small, defensive cannon of the second, and the relative length and armor of the third.



    I don't know. I'm not trying to win you over, or anything, Vorax. The Lord and Julian Cope, himself, know that (as much as I love it) there are plenty of SW things I take issue with. All I ask is that you try to keep in mind that all of my comments are only intended to further good will discussion of the topic, and not meant as an attempt to bait you or to argue, Brother. The reason I keep replying to you is because I think it's fun! :p


    One last thought. I still do question why Imperials would not only be transported within the vehicle, but also in the prisoner racks? That's weird to me, too (it always has been) and I totally get that argument. I'm hopeful that the Stormtroopers will be shown to emerge from within the vehicle in Rebels, and that the racks will just be used for prisoners, but we'll see.
     
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  5. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    The way they transport prisoners on that thing reminds me of Half-Life 2.
     
  6. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    It just hit me why the Stormtroopers are in the prisoner racks like that.

    The original version of the toy contained a sound feature which included things like laser sounds, Artoo and the like, and the battery compartment took up the bulk of the interior of the vehicle. There was literally nowhere else to put the darned troopers.

    When the ITT was released a year later as a 1981 Sears exclusive, it came with a more elaborate set of stickers, but minus the SFX. The area where the battery compartment had been in the first edition was removed, allowing for a proper trooper bay to take its place, thus rendering the exterior traveling racks prisoner-exclusive (as you can see from my pictures I posted earlier, this is the version I own).

    This is the source of the confusion, folks! Let's see if Rebels takes its cue from the first edition, or the corrected exclusive.
     
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    You are saving me so much time in this thread in so many ways. ^:)^

    And just to show the vintage evidence to your point (for anyone else who the link was not working for):

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "Owen Skywalker." =P~ This vintage stuff never gets old for me!!!!!!
     
  8. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Funny, because at one point I believe it was Owen Kenobi.
     
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  9. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Kablob you may be thinking of how the Return of the Jedi novelization said Owen was Obi-Wan's cousin, but I don't recall him ever being referred to as Owen Kenobi.
     
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  10. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    His brother, actually. They even invented a retcon for it at one point.
     
  11. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Kablob thanks for the clarification, but is that what you were referring to? Because I don't remember him ever being called Owen Kenobi in that context although obviously that would imply that that was his last name.
     
  12. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    No, I was just talking about how Owen was Obi-Wan's brother at one point.

    I take it back in the day everyone assumed Owen was Anakin's (biological) brother?
     
  13. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Kablob okay cool, let me know if you happen to remember where "Owen Kenobi" came from because I'm curious.
     
  14. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Well fellas, I see no evidence that those racks are officially & specifically for prisoners when they're not anyway, so not sure where you guys are getting these racks are for prisoners if to only excuse the piss poor design and logic of the thing.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Reconnaissance_Troop_Transporter

    In our toy world, the only duty that vehicle can fulfill is a prisoner detention transport, but its primary purpose and duty is for the deployment of Imperial Stormtroopers into war zones and other hostile para-military situations. Another unfortunate occurrence is not only are the Stormtroopers exposed to enemy fire they have no way of returning fire they're trapped in that rack with little space to maneuverer around and there is no MG 34/42-like blasters attached to any of the racks so they're sitting ducks armed with their dinky sterling blastech 9mm smg blasters.



    There is no internal trooper storage like in a modern APC, the troopers are exposed and are on the outside riding. Maybe this sorta vehicle suits the IQ of the Stormtroopers as on the show as they just stare at grenades and act all baffled and befuddled anytime they're under attack or come across some lone rebel they cannot contain even with a platoon of troopers and reinforcements. A vehicle like this looks only good for light police security duty or in the rear anti-partisan but they better prey the Rebels dont have access to mines, grenades, flamethrows, sniper rifles, light-heavy AA blasters and anti-aircraft/anti-personnel rocket launchers - the latter of which am sure there is plenty of them on the surplus market via Saw Gerrera .

    But its true, its the Empire.. if Ewoks can destroy AT-ST's and wipe out elite Stormtroopers with sticks and stones this sorta vehicle fits right in.
     
  15. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    I'd just like to point out that everything you just linked to came from the Expanded Universe, not Rebels.
     
  16. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Thats what we're talking about mainly the old Kenner old EU vehicle in which Rebels has adapted into canon, overall its function and design is the same. I just did a search myself. The Rebels canon looks to mirror the trooper transport duty with a optional secondary prisoner lockup role l So the racks are still specifically for the the 6 troopers, it doenst have room to store troopers inside it except for the driver and radio/com operator/gunner in the front cab. So it remains the same.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Not sure how many times you're gonna repeat stuff like this, but for as many times as you do I can respond with this:

    Or check the picture you just posted.
     
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  18. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Heck, they're less exposed than those poor clones in the ball turrets on LAAT/i's. Always felt sorry for those guys...
     
  19. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Those ball turrets were no doubt made out've an armored ballistic glass aka transparent armor or in Star Wars universe a transparent metal substance called "Transparisteel":

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Transparisteel

    The view port on Troop Transport is made out that material as well. Regrettably the designers did not add those shield visors for the side passengers which would make this vehicle somewhat more reasonable. Come to think of if many of the imperial loses on the Tantive IV couldve been much loser had they boarded the ship with riot shields - which early designs of Stormtroopers had.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Hangman Host & 15X Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    They also had lightsabers:

     
  21. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003

    Wonder if they had better aim with those...

    Oh no -- no wait. I'm just thinking of that scene where Han goes charging down the hall in ANH, with an army of these guys giving chase and waving these babies helter-skelter. The hallways would be hacked to smithereens.
     
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  22. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    But again, it's not to try to "excuse" anything, Brother. :)

    Do we know if the racks will be used exclusively for prisoners? No, it's too early for us to know that, yet.

    But we do know that at least one facet of the express purpose of the racks is for the transportation of Imperial prisoners. We have the evidence.

    Not only has the prisoner thing been repeatedly stressed in the literature, but better yet, even before the show has aired, we already have clear-cut proof that Rebels will show the racks being used for prisoners. We've seen it with out own eyes:

    [​IMG]

    What remains to be seen, however, is whether or not the series will show Stormtroopers in those racks, too. I really kind of hope it won't, because I agree with anyone who finds it such an odd way for the troopers to travel.

    But I'll get it if they decide to honor the toy by sticking the Stormies in there, too. I may not like it, but I'll get it.



    Well, now, I think that still remains to be seen in Rebels.

    In one sense, there's no denying that you're absolutely right - in the very first edition of the toy, there was room in the back only for internal storage of a few droids (they called the space a "droid containment area," or some such). No Stormtroopers were squeezing their way in there!

    However, as I demonstrated in the photos I took and shared here of my version of the ITT (the Sears exclusive), in the updated second edition of the ITT, there absolutely is room for internal storage of Stormtroopers. Plenty of them. I fit six in there, with room left over to spare for even more guys.

    But hey, those are just the old toy versions, anyway. I think we can probably all agree that what really matters now is not how the Kenner toy was constructed, but how the ITT will be presented on our screens in Rebels.

    With that in mind, hopefully they'll take the obvious route, and show us the rear hatch dropping open (like the famous Allied landing crafts did at Normandy), with a squadron of Imperial Stormtroopers suddenly pouring out to overwhelm their enemy. That would be awesome! :D


    Edit:
    Yep, you're absolutely right, Tarkas.

    This pic Vorax posted (from the Rebels Visual Guide -- which I own, so I should have known better) describes the racks as "Troop/prisoner compartment(s)."

    [​IMG]

    So, I guess that answers my question about whether or not Rebels will show any Stormtroopers riding in the racks, along with the prisoners we already know will be there, huh? :D

    As I said, I really think it would make more sense for them to be prisoner-exclusive. Oh, well, what can you do?

    Anyway, I still very much hope to see a gaggle of Stormtroopers come spilling out from the rear hatch, invasion-style!
     
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  23. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Oh, and Vorax, that photo you posted reminded me, I meant to mention before that I agree with you, man -- I really like the Rebels' team decision to add the ball turrets to the front of the ITT. That's a very cool addition, I think.

    Incidentally, I think I seem to remember hearing that Hasbro is producing an updated version of the ITT for retail? One based upon the new look from Rebels? Does anyone know if this is right, or perhaps I'm just mixing that up with something else? Dark Lord Tarkas?

    Hey, Revanfan1, I know you frequent the same Rebelscum forums I do, have you heard anything about this one yet?

    ======================================================

    Personally, I'm still hoping Hasbro makes a Ghost (especially if they'd give us some SA Rebels figures to crew her with)!

    Yeah, a BMF Ghost would be great. But really, I'd be happy even with something the size of the original Kenner Millennium Falcon.

    But I digress. Unless we ever learn that the Ghost was somehow based upon an early McQuarrie design, or something, it's beyond the scope of this particular topic of discussion. :p

     
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  24. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Has room for only 6 passengers , not like you can move much with this vehicle whether troops or prisoners or a mixed haul. Its firepower is lacking, armor light, and not enough troop capacity, it shouldve remained a toy.

    Supposedly LFL do not want realistic format figures either for Rebels, the vehicle looks like a mission series mini rig:

    http://www.banthaskull.com/forums/showthread.php?6489-Imperial-Troop-Transport
     
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  25. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014