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Episode III icons... This rather made me mad...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sithman, Sep 21, 2003.

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  1. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    I agree with UKS and those who agree with me in agreeing with him.
     
  2. wstraka5

    wstraka5 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2002
    And to all who claimed a 50x50 pixels gif can't possibly spoil somebody, because it's "almost invisible" - that's not true. If something on the left side doesn't look familiar, I (and many others, or they wouldn't comment about icon changes of users they know) look directly at it and see that it's new/ different.

    So you look and see that it is new and different. So what? What should your reaction be: "A new icon, neat" or "OMG! A SPOILER!!" I would venture that the first should be your reaction. Now, if you want to know the origin of the icon, you can. But that is YOUR responsibility, not someone elses. And unless you go and ask someone about it, you wouldn't know if it is someone's Photoshop creation (yes, there are people in the icon makers who are that good) or if it is based off a real pic. The minute that you ask about it, the responsibility is yours, not the icon maker or G-S's.

    EDIT: Genghis12, glad you are agreeing with UKS who agrees with me. :p

    EDIT2: Also, if it is SO bad to see what characters might or might not look like in Episode 3 in the NS forum, you should take the banner down, since it shows the Emperor, Yoda and a rendering of Obi-Wan. Now, do you see how silly this whole thing is?
     
  3. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Again, it doesn't require a change to the spoiler policy to keep every image LFL releases off of icons. It only asks a bit of niceness by the Icon people. They can be seen everywhere. Posted pictures can't.


    wstraka, spoiler free people assume the worst when seeing a bald Hayden. It COULD be photoshopped, but it could also be real and immediatly (without further investigation of its origins) spark the thought "Damn, I did not want to know that"


    EDIT: "Also, if it is SO bad to see what characters might or might not look like in Episode 3 in the NS forum, you should take the banner down, since it shows the Emperor, Yoda and a rendering of Obi-Wan. Now, do you see how silly this whole thing is?"

    No, because I don't go into NSA, for fear of getting to know something that isn't considered a spoiler by the policy, but by me.



    (and stop posting all at once, I can barely keep up :p)
     
  4. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    It doesn't require any change to the icon creative process. It only requires a bit of niceness by the people posting in the "non-spoiler" forums frequented by "non-spoiler" people.
     
  5. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    if the icon process thingy puts out the same degree of teasing as in pre-AotC days, everyone is happy. They did seem happy in those days.
     
  6. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Back then the icon process wasn't what it is now. As I said above, had it been like it is now you would have had Yoda with lightsaber icons.
     
  7. wstraka5

    wstraka5 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Again, it doesn't require a change to the spoiler policy to keep every image LFL releases off of icons. It only asks a bit of niceness by the Icon people. They can be seen everywhere. Posted pictures can't.

    Fine, lets take your statement to it's logical conclusion. Thus, your current icon (as well as all banners) would not be allowed, since they are all based off of LFL picutres. Come on and be reasonable here.

    wstraka, spoiler free people assume the worst when seeing a bald Hayden.

    It wasn't a bald Hayden. It was Hayden with a full head of hair.

    It COULD be photoshopped, but it could also be real and immediatly (without further investigation of its origins) spark the thought "Damn, I did not want to know that"

    In that case, we should remove the ROTJ bald-Anakin icons because, by your own statement, it is a "spoiler" for what happens in Episode 3. Oh, and we should remove the OT Obi-Wan pics, because Kenobi MIGHT have gray hair in Episode 3 (note, that wasn't a spoiler, but it MIGHT happen). And the Emperor pics? Remove them too, because we know that he MIGHT look similar to that in Episode 3.

    Anyone could find anything, even from the OT, a potential spoiler for Episode 3. If you are that picky as to what could "spoil" you, then you should turn off all of the images when you visit the JC, because there are potential spoilers everywhere. See how silly it gets?
     
  8. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    Sape, now you're talking of a change. I thought you don't want to change anything.
    Refresh my memory.... was there an uproar about too few icons in 2001/02?
    Because this time there are concerns about you people overdoing it.


    wstraka:
    "Thus, your current icon (as well as all banners) would not be allowed, since they are all based off of LFL picutres."

    You're commenting about already released movies. Why?


    "It wasn't a bald Hayden. It was Hayden with a full head of hair."

    Because I never thought of the currently uploaded Episode 3 Anakin icon as a spoiler or something. I used another example that hasn't happened yet and would be a spoiler - even if they'd show it in a trailer.


    "OT"

    Nothing known from the OT that might happen in E3 is a spoiler. We're talking about new images.
    That's like thinking a picture of Hayden's character dieing in a movie he shoots 2004 is a spoiler - unreasonable.
     
  9. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    EpIII Anakin Skywalker looking like ROTJ Anakin Skywalker or ANH, ESB or ROTJ Darth Vader != spoiler

    Jar Jar Binks looking like Darth Vader = spoiler!
     
  10. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Sape, now you're talking of a change. I thought you don't want to change anything.
    Refresh my memory.... was there an uproar about too few icons in 2001/02?
    Because this time there are concerns about you people overdoing it.


    What Sape is saying is that the process for creating and uploading icons in general is what has changed. With G-S acting as the icon director, there was a significant increase in the number of icons uploaded. However, the policy about what can be in an icon has not changed. Icons cannot contain spoilers as defined by TFN's policy. They must come from officially released materials or be fan-made materials (i.e. drawings, the PA icons, etc.).

    The spoiler policy never changed.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  11. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Thank you. That is what I was saying. :)
     
  12. wstraka5

    wstraka5 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Jar Jar Binks looking like Darth Vader = spoiler!

    Oh the pain! Now I can't get that horrid image out of my mind. :p

    What Sape is saying is that the process for creating and uploading icons in general is what has changed. With G-S acting as the icon director, there was a significant increase in the number of icons uploaded. However, the policy about what can be in an icon has not changed. Icons cannot contain spoilers as defined by TFN's policy. They must come from officially released materials or be fan-made materials (i.e. drawings, the PA icons, etc.).

    The spoiler policy never changed.


    I think that is what most of the pro-new Anakin icon people are trying to say, but not as good as you, Kimball. However, what the people who don't want the icon are saying is that even LFL released photos shouldn't be icons because they might consititute a spoiler. But, as the rest of the people are saying, an LFL released picture doesn't consitute a spoiler, UNLESS you change the board-wide spoiler rules. And that just isn't necessary, IMO.
     
  13. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    even LFL released photos shouldn't be icons because they might consititute a spoiler

    I don't think that's what is being said. I think what is being asked for is that icons that spoil the storyline, or major plot points (not necessarily Anakin's hair, or whatever, but bigger things) not be uploaded - and they believe this is a concern because LFL is releasing images that spoil more of the story than before (aka, the earlier movies).

    It would, of course, be purely a judgment call on the part of the icon manager. But I just think people are asking for is a little consideration (not a complete change of spoiler policy) when he decides what to upload.

    I don't think it's really a problem yet, but we're still far away from the release of Ep. III, and it may be a concern of the non-spoiler users (of which there seem to be many) at some point in the future.
     
  14. wstraka5

    wstraka5 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2002
    I don't think that's what is being said. I think what is being asked for is that icons that spoil the storyline, or major plot points (not necessarily Anakin's hair, or whatever, but bigger things) not be uploaded - and they believe this is a concern because LFL is releasing images that spoil more of the story than before (aka, the earlier movies).

    Let's go back to the first post, shall we?

    Alright, I'll cut to the chase: You (the admins, people in charge, whoever they are) uploaded an Episode III Anakin icon.

    I am a very, very spoiler free person, that's why I never venture outside of my FF, collecting and music. Yet, when other users are able to attach an Episode III picture that I don't want to see to a place right below their name and then parade around other forums so that non-spoilers can see it, it doesn't make me happy. It doesn't make me happy at all.


    So someone was complaining because an Episode 3 icon was uploaded. It didn't matter that it didn't have any spoilers in it, it was the fact that it was an Episode 3 Anakin icon that was uploaded.

    And do you honestly think that G-S (or another mod) would upload an icon with a real spoiler in it?
     
  15. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    And do you honestly think that G-S (or another mod) would upload an icon with a real spoiler in it?

    Then the question becomes, what's a spoiler? And the spoiler policy says anything LFL releases is not a spoiler. As KW pointed out, what if LFL released the script? Would that be a spoiler?

    All I'm saying is that if it seems like it would spoil a major plot point or whatever, take another look before uploading - regardless of whether it was released by LFL or not. To be nice to the crazy non-spoiler folk.

    Regardless of whether the first post was about all Ep. III icons, I don't think it is now; it's about (it seems to me) if the icon (from an image released by LFL) spoils a major plot point, should it be uploaded? And I'll I'm asking is that the icon manager think about this before hand. :)
     
  16. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Again, I'm sorry but we're not going to revise the rules on this one. This, quite honestly, has more to do with LFL than it does with us. They used to dribble out information so very slowly over the course of making a movie that watching paint dry was exhilerating. When they did finally release something, we responded here.

    We were always ahead of them and were sitting on wonderful images that we could not use. Some of them we could never use until the film came out. That also translates to protecting the non-spoiled folks from images that were well-known around the Internet, but not official. Thus, we did our very best to moderate it out of the NSA whenever we so much as heard of someone posting spoiler images in there. And we most certainly did not have a single one of those images converted to icons.

    Now they're releasing information faster, and we're responding in kind. We cannot go about making determinations as to the weight of the spoiler and we're not going to evaluate every single thing that becomes official as to their limitations of use here. We're going to stay the course. This isn't being tough, it's being consistent over the course of the prequel trilogy.

     
  17. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    obaona...
    ". As KW pointed out, what if LFL released the script? Would that be a spoiler?"

    By its very nature, "the script" is Star Wars literature and we already currently have guidelines in place covering the new release of Star Wars literature to fall back on.
     
  18. Naboo1

    Naboo1 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2003
    ^Makes Hayden look like Willie Ames. :)
     
  19. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    By its very nature, "the script" is Star Wars literature and we already currently have guidelines in place covering the new release of Star Wars literature to fall back on.

    Not really -- the Movie Folks consider the script to be "Movie" rather than "EU" property... so it could go either way.
     
  20. FateNaberrie

    FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2000
    [image=http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/mangofate/dicktardicon.jpg]

    I suggest we upload this icon to replace the previous one. All of the "non-spoiler" parts of the image are still intact (the white background). Unfortunately, the black shadow of what once was Anakin's hair is visible, and one maybe able to divine the whole plot of EIII from these tendrils.


    Seriously, though, I consider myself pretty HCSF, I haven't even decided if I'm going to see the trailers more than once each, but everyone who is getting their panties in a twist over this picture needs to grow up.
     
  21. BOBAFETISH

    BOBAFETISH Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2001
    I agree. Is it really a spoiler the Hayden has long hair?

    What if R2 is in Ep 3? Can I still use him?
     
  22. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    What if LFL released the script? Would that be a spoiler?"

    If Lucas released the script, I'd turn it into an icon.
     
  23. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    dp...
    "Not really -- the Movie Folks consider the script to be "Movie" rather than "EU" property... so it could go either way."

    Well, I'd like to see them put the script into a film projector and watch it. :)

    EDIT: I realized maybe this isn't fair. Not everyone has access to a film projector. So, I guess I'd accept the point that "a script = movie" if they were able to put the script into their DVD or video player and be able to watch it as well. :)
     
  24. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    We would treat the script like a Select Image, for instance. It would be like anything else released from LFL. If Lucas, for some strange reason, gave it out at the Official Site, it could then be posted in its entirety anywhere on the boards so long as it is within the relevant context of the forum. For instance, the JCC does not typically house Star Wars discussion and, as such, posting the script or discussion thereof would be inappropriate for that forum. I don't think this would fall under Literature at all. Then I would turn the script into an icon, title and all.
     
  25. Dingo

    Dingo Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2001
    What Sape is saying is that the process for creating and uploading icons in general is what has changed. With G-S acting as the icon director, there was a significant increase in the number of icons uploaded. However, the policy about what can be in an icon has not changed.

    Actually, going by what Sape has said, along with this entire thread, the policy has changed.

    It was said that the reason an icon featuring Yoda with a lightsabre was not uploaded before AotC's release was because the icon process was more disorganised than it is now. False. While it is true that the process now is much more organised (and I will never stop giving props to G-S for that, he exceeded all expectations), there were icons of Yoda with a lightsabre being made by iconmakers before the release, yet not a single one of them ever was considered for upload.

    Why? Because both managers that were involved in the uploading of icons (both spoiler mods) had agreed to a policy of not allowing anything spoilerish in the icons. It did not hurt anyone at all, since those pics were still out there for people to view, and then, just as there is now, there was more than enough other material floating around to make icons out of that it did not restrict iconmakers in the slightest.

    So basically, the NS people do have a right to ask why has the policy changed, since any image can be used now, not just the "major" sources (and as I said earlier, the 'main' page of TOS, ie www.starwars.com, not anywhere else inside the site).

    And before someone asks why they haven't heard this before: just because you don't ask about how something is done, it does not mean there was not a set of guidelines in use. 99% of the JC rules were enforced consistently before they were even remotely written down, and many still continue to be.
     
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