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Episode III icons... This rather made me mad...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sithman, Sep 21, 2003.

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  1. MiraxTHorn

    MiraxTHorn Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2000
    It is really a shame that an issue which should come down to common courtesy is turning into "Bash the Spoiler-Free".

    This is our last opportunity to experience a Star Wars film. If some of us choose to take drastic steps to avoid anything mildly spoilerish, this hardly seems the time to tell someone to "grow up". By allowing these images, you are potentially causing people to avoid their own FanForce boards. Isn't that counter to the goals of FanForce?

    The non-spoiled were easily able to avoid spoilers, and yet continued to use the boards prior to AOTC. We knew what was safe and what wasn't. It seems entirely reasonable to hold the same expectations for Ep. III.

    Whether or not icons and images were more difficult to obtain two years ago is secondary to forcing even one Ep. III image on anyone who wishes to avoid them. I think that's all the spoiler-free are asking - that we be able to decide for ourselves whether or not to view an image.

    It would not be necessary to change the entire spoiler policy. There would be no reason to alter what is allowed on the tf.n main page or in the spoiler boards. The spoiler-free can simply avoid them as they have always done. But we should not be forced completely off the boards because we wish to be as surprised as possible when the time comes.

    Regards,
    M.
     
  2. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Ka... dingo...
    "Actually, going by what Sape has said, along with this entire thread, the policy has changed... Why? Because both managers that were involved in the uploading of icons (both spoiler mods) had agreed to a policy of not allowing anything spoilerish in the icons."

    The original icon "spoiler" policy from the original icon page begun in May 2001:
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191&page=6]5/10/01 ? MaidenLumpé[/link]
    ?as far as spoilers... the official guidelines are that anything posted on the official site isn't a spoiler?

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191&page=6]5/10/01 ? ObiAnne[/link]
    ?And to feel safe about spoilers, don't post any names that aren't official if you do a pic of an ep.II actor.?

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191&page=10]5/11/01 - Mr. P[/link]
    "I don't think that there should be spoiler icons, such as one posted above. The icons are across the entire boards, and I do not believe taht the character you put up above is confirmed by LFL... and since icons are not just in SA, they can't be spoilers because spoilers can only be in SA."

    [link=]5/11/01 - Mr. P[/link]
    "The official site has already confirmed Count Dooku
    icon
    young Owen has been confirmed for quite a while now.
    I don't think any of these are any great surprise at this point and hence, not spoilers."

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191&page=11]5/11/01 - ArtyEwok[/link]
    "I'll let the other admin kind of have a say here, I prefer not having names attached to episode 2 icons if possible (With obvious exceptions!) but that's just me."

    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191&page=11]5/12/01 - LuukeSkywalker[/link]
    "Well, Dooku is not a "spoiler" anymore since the official site has now officila confirmed Dooku's name. Besides, it would only be closeup of Chrisopher Lee's face. I hope THAT wouldn't offend anybody.

    And the images of Episode II Anakin should also not be considered spoiler anymore becuase the images are OFFICIALLY released images via the official site and SW Insider.

    According to theforce.net, something isn't considered spoiler once the official site confirms it. And everything I mentioned is now official"

    Different? You decide.

    If anyone wants to see the kinds of EpisodeII icons that were being created and allowed as early as 2001, then this is the [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2686191]thread[/link] to go check out, especially within the first week of it.

    Not saying anyone's wrong. Just offering some more insight from the original pre-AotC icon spoiler policies.
    >
     
  3. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Whether or not icons and images were more difficult to obtain two years ago is secondary to forcing even one Ep. III image on anyone who wishes to avoid them. I think that's all the spoiler-free are asking - that we be able to decide for ourselves whether or not to view an image.

    THere is an easy way for you to do this. If you really wish to avoid possible spoiler images, then follow these steps.

    1) Got to [link=http://mozilla.org]Mozilla.org[/link] and download the latest version of Mozilla for your operating system. (It rus on Windows, Linux, Unix, and Mac OSX.)

    2) Install Mozilla on your machine.

    3) Go to the JC. Right-click on an icon for a user.

    4) Select "Block Images from This Server" from the menu.

    Mozilla has the ability to block all images from certiain servers that you select. This was originally done to block annoying banner ads, but will work perfectly well to block all icons as well. It is extremely stable and functional (and even block popup ads by default). I use it all the time myself (posting from version 1.5 RC1 right now).

    The icons themselves are not in violation of TFN's spoiler policy. If you wish to go beyond that spoiler policy, it is up to you to take action (such as the steps outlined above), not the administration. Our job is to enforce the existing policy that has served so well for many years.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  4. FateNaberrie

    FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2000
    It is really a shame that an issue which should come down to common courtesy is turning into "Bash the Spoiler-Free".

    Changing TF.n's spoiler policy for a couple of people with extremely thin skin is NOT common courtesy. Also, for the most part this thread is not "Bashing the Spoiler-Free".

    This is our last opportunity to experience a Star Wars film. If some of us choose to take drastic steps to avoid anything mildly spoilerish, this hardly seems the time to tell someone to "grow up". By allowing these images, you are potentially causing people to avoid their own FanForce boards. Isn't that counter to the goals of FanForce?

    If you are taking 'DRASTIC' steps, then you won't be visiting the boards at all. Anyone could (and this has happened before) go into NSA/random FF board/ JCC and posted major spoilers and plenty of non-spoiled people would see it before it got edited. I left the boards, or visited JCC infrequently just before AOTC for that reason. The mere fact that you're staying here means that you aren't interested in taking Drastic measures.
    It certainly is the time to tell you to grow up. Even though I take my own spoiler-freeness very seriously, raising a huge stink over ONE IMAGE of a character which didn't tell you ANYTHING (there are infinite explanations for the hair, k?) is extremely immature.

    The non-spoiled were easily able to avoid spoilers, and yet continued to use the boards prior to AOTC. We knew what was safe and what wasn't. It seems entirely reasonable to hold the same expectations for Ep. III.

    See above paragraph about jerks posting spoilers just for kicks, also we have the same expectations now that we did then, so the last part is moot.

    Whether or not icons and images were more difficult to obtain two years ago is secondary to forcing even one Ep. III image on anyone who wishes to avoid them. I think that's all the spoiler-free are asking - that we be able to decide for ourselves whether or not to view an image.

    The JC is not forcing anything on you, you chose to post here despite the current spoiler policy and this is what happened. And that is not what "all the spoiler-free are asking."
    Most of the spoiler free are embarassed by people like you "representing" us in this thread.
     
  5. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    "And do you honestly think that G-S (or another mod) would upload an icon with a real spoiler in it?"

    No and that is all I'm wishing for.


    The "Nothing-Changes"-Party here shouldn't keep saying things that translate into "You will be spoiled if you stay here" but rather "You won't be spoiled any more than before AotC if you stay here" - and hold on to it.
    Personally, I will keep posting at the JC just like around AotC, and will see how much more or less spoiled I'll be and say whether ot not you've done a good job afterwards.


    And again, if you don't want to change anything, don't change the degree of spoilerish material in icons from its state around AotC, too.
    G-S greatly improved the icon process (except for the JO-icon in my bio :p). Let's trust he won't make anything worse - it doesn't seem to be in his nature as icon manager.
     
  6. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    TwiLek...
    "The "Nothing-Changes"-Party here shouldn't keep saying things that translate into "You will be spoiled if you stay here" but rather "You won't be spoiled any more than before AotC if you stay here" - and hold on to it."

    It might not need to be reiterated, but just to clarify, since different people have different ideas of what "spoiler" means. If NS definition of spoiler equals "anything Episode III," then "You will be spoiled if you stay here.."

    If NS definition of spoiler equals this site's definition of spoiler, then "You won't be spoiled any more than before AotC if you stay here."
     
  7. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    NSA. Right. Never been there. Because I don't touch anything that has Episode 3 written on it.
    Isn't that clever?

    Am I in big danger of being spoiled in YJCC, CT and FanForce (apart from idiots who post about death scenes and newbies who found the wrong forum)? Because these aren't places for Episode 3 material anyway - say the forum policies, not the spoiler policy.
    I shouldn't be spoiled there any more than before AotC if I stay there.
     
  8. Daughter_of_Yubyub

    Daughter_of_Yubyub Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Personally, I'm spoiler free but have no issues with that icon. After all, it's a given that Anakin is going to be in the movie. (Incidently, as for the infamous braid, for all we know his lightsaber slipped in a training exercise :p)Besides, honestly, how much spoilerness can really be fit into a tiny little icon? As long as its just official images, the things are mostly harmless.

    [hl=pink]YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002[/hl]
     
  9. wstraka5

    wstraka5 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2002
    And do you honestly think that G-S (or another mod) would upload an icon with a real spoiler in it?

    No and that is all I'm wishing for.


    I never asked if you wanted it to be that way. I asked if you really thought the mods were so stupid they would blatently upload an icon with a real spoiler.

    The "Nothing-Changes"-Party here shouldn't keep saying things that translate into "You will be spoiled if you stay here" but rather "You won't be spoiled any more than before AotC if you stay here" - and hold on to it.

    That was never stated. What was stated was that icons of offically release photos will be allowed, just as they always have been. If an officially release pic (allowed under the spoiler rules) will "spoil" you, well, that is your choice. But you can turn images off.

    Am I in big danger of being spoiled in YJCC, CT and FanForce (apart from idiots who post about death scenes and newbies who found the wrong forum)? Because these aren't places for Episode 3 material anyway - say the forum policies, not the spoiler policy.
    I shouldn't be spoiled there any more than before AotC if I stay there.


    The answer is no. Again, an officially release picture is not a spoiler under the current rule. And because of that, icons of those pictures will be made and uploaded, since they are not in violation of the spoiler policy.
     
  10. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    "I never asked if you wanted it to be that way. I asked if you really thought the mods were so stupid they would blatently upload an icon with a real spoiler."

    Here I am, agreeing with you, and still wrong. Great. I love this place.
     
  11. obi_wan_kanathan

    obi_wan_kanathan Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    I think the current icon policy should stay in place. However, I do ask that GS try to not pick icons that have spoilers in them that could wreck the movie in some way. (Such as Palpy with a lightsaber or anything like that) Anakin's hair is not a spoiler that'll wreck the movie for anyone, so I think it should stay.

    Keeping in mind that I'm spoiler free myself, if anyone here is worked up over seeing Anakin's hair before the movie comes out, they really shouldn't be going to the JC. I guarantee that you'll see things much worse then that by hanging out around here.
     
  12. FateNaberrie

    FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2000
    I think someone oughta photoshop up a picture of Anakin slicing Padme in half: Darth Maul style, just to tick off Sithman.
     
  13. goldbubbly

    goldbubbly Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2002
    well, i'm bothered by the pic.


    that contributed to discussion right?


    sorry, i'm very spoiler free as well and I don't appreciate seeing that icon whether it seems like a big deal to some people or not.

    Doesn't matter if i know things are going to happen in episode III, i'd prefer for it to be as new an experience as possible for me when i sit down to view it for the first time.

     
  14. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    GS would never upload an icon that was a spoiler as we define it. We really do care that the non-spoiled crowd remains as such. We won't go uploading spoiler icons. People will ask him all the time to upload it, but I guarantee he won't do it. We have a few images we would love to turn into icons but won't because they're still spoilers. When they're no longer spoilers, you'll have a potential new icon.
     
  15. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    sorry, i'm very spoiler free as well and I don't appreciate seeing that icon whether it seems like a big deal to some people or not.

    As cruel as this may sound, but that's not our responsibility. Our responsibility is to follow the established spoiler policy. Anything beyone that policy is up to you.

    If you wish to keep to a different policy, I suggest that you follow the steps I outlined above. It has the side effect of removing all banners from the forums as well, but that also provides one less potential source for spoilers as you define them. (It also speeds up loading the pages.) I promise you that you will not see another icon with a "spoiler" if you follow that procedure.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  16. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    And not to sound cruel again, but the one single person controlling what is and is not a spoiler is Mr. George Lucas. He is giving away information and images much sooner and at a higher rate than with the previous two films.
     
  17. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    "We have a few images we would love to turn into icons but won't because they're still spoilers. When they're no longer spoilers, you'll have a potential new icon."

    Maybe you do have to change spoiler policy. A spoiler is a spoiler and doesn't stop being a spoiler until May05. An image can really stop being a spoiler? That's a very funny concept.
    I thought a spoiler is "something that spoils the movie". So, if your unofficial picture somehow spoils the movie as set in TF.N's policy, doesn't it still spoil the movie whatever its status turns into?

    Very weird.
     
  18. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    So, if your unofficial picture somehow spoils the movie as set in TF.N's policy, doesn't it still spoil the movie whatever its status turns into?

    Not at all. Let me provide an example.

    Let's say that in September, an image of BBGA (Big Bad Guy A) finds its way onto the web. That would be a spoiler. However, if then in October, an official poster of the movie comes our with BBGA on it, it is no longer a spoiler, but marketing. It can be the exact same image, and yet be changed in status from being a spoiler to a piece of marketing.

    If LFL releases it, it is no longer considered a spoiler, as it is then part of their marketing campaign. You are free to continue to consider it a spoiler, but do not try to impose that consideration on top of the official spoiler policy.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  19. FateNaberrie

    FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2000
    Here's an example that kind of expands on Kimball's.

    In TPM, Darth Maul used the first double bladed sabre. Now, assuming an image of this sabre in action had been circulated underground and in PSA early on, this would certainly be a spoiler. Indeed, to some people knowing that Maul had a double bladed sabre spoiled the effect of that scene for them.
    However LFL decided to put Maul's dramatic ignition of his sabre into the trailer. They decided that they would use it as a hook, or a marketing technique to get people to watch the movie, believing that it also did not ruin any major plot points or detract from anyone's enjoyment of the movie. Once people saw the sabre in the trailer, it was no longer a "spoiler" because LFL wanted us to know it was in the movie.

    This does not mean that LFL decides what ruins anyone's enjoyment of the film, simply that what they want us to know is not termed a "spoiler"
     
  20. dp4m

    dp4m JCC Playoff Pick 'Em Winner, Also a Narc star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I agree with your *concept* Fate, but not your application.

    I'd say that officially released photos are fundamentally different than trailers and tV spots.

    I'd say one (TV/Movies) reaches a far, far larger audience than the Intraweb and if you're trying to avoid THOSE pictures -- well, good luck to you.
     
  21. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    While I believe that anything officially released by Lucasfilm are allowed to be incorporated into the Episode III boards' banner, icons are slightly more delicate an issue because they can appear on ANY board.

    The Jedi Knights of Cleveland lost one of our founding members, [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=12589954&start=12606079]because[/link] some people could not respect his desire to remain 100% spoiler free. He's agreed to remain in contact (via e-mail) but I fought hard to convince him to stay...despite this difference of opinion (it's a looong time before Episode III). Therefore, i don't think it's fair to gang up on folks like MiraxTHorn because they (and others) have a differnt definition of remaining spoiler free.

    While everyone has different levels of what they consider "spoiler" alot of the problems may be a matter of TIMING. While the trailers aren't even in theaters yet...the icon in question is the first image (aside from Ewan in his Obi-Wan costume) FROM Episode III. The rest are merely a collage of AOTC/OT images and fan art. It may be too soon to be releasing Episode III film images.
     
  22. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    The spoiler policy doesn't change the fact that a spoiler spoils, if it's really a spoiler.
    Let's get back to the Anakin icon. That was a spoiler before it was officially released? Why? It doesn't spoil anything.
     
  23. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    It doesn't spoil anything
    It does, because it is a glimpse at Anakin's costume for Episode III. And there are people who DO NOT want to know until the movie is released.

    While TFN's policy on spoilers is fair, we do have to consider that there are large numbers of people out there who want to avoid any/all info about Episode III...without resorting to simply telling them "get over it"

    Rather then make the people (who want to protect their right to remain spoiler free) go through alot of trouble to avoid having their experience ruined...wouldn't it be reasonable to have specific icons (such as the Anakin one) available to be seen ONLY on the Episode III boards (kinda like the old CR icons were available ONLY to those registered as CR)? This could act as a temporary measure to allow Episode III icons, while protecting others from having their experience tainted by someone's icon selection. just a idea?
     
  24. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    While TFN's policy on spoilers is fair, we do have to consider that there are large numbers of people out there who want to avoid any/all info about Episode III...without resorting to simply telling them "get over it"

    Again, I posted a very simple, 4-step process to prevent a person from being spoiled by an unwanted image. Download Mozilla and use its image blocking abilities and you will never be bothered by it again.

    That is not telling someone to "get over it", it is providing a simple and effective solution to the problem. Those people who do not wish to see any images will be well served by such a feature. You could even go so far as to block all images from TFN. If there is an image that you want to see, you can right click on it and select "View Image" and see just that image.

    Everyone wins that way.

    Rather then make the people (who want to protect their right to remain spoiler free) go through alot of trouble to avoid having their experience ruined...wouldn't it be reasonable to have specific icons (such as the Anakin one) available to be seen ONLY on the Episode III boards (kinda like the old CR icons were available ONLY to those registered as CR)? This could act as a temporary measure to allow Episode III icons, while protecting others from having their experience tainted by someone's icon selection. just a idea?

    That would not be possible without changes to the board's code, which we cannot do. There is the ability to restrict certain icons to administrators and/or VIPs, but that is it. Those icons are still used across the board for every post.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  25. Bria

    Bria Manager Emeritus, -MNFF Council star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 15, 1999
    Rather then make the people (who want to protect their right to remain spoiler free) go through alot of trouble to avoid having their experience ruined...wouldn't it be reasonable to have specific icons (such as the Anakin one) available to be seen ONLY on the Episode III boards (kinda like the old CR icons were available ONLY to those registered as CR)? This could act as a temporary measure to allow Episode III icons, while protecting others from having their experience tainted by someone's icon selection. just a idea?

    The old CR (and mod) icons were VIP only. In order for only 3SA people to see (at least to pick them) the icons, all the members would have to become VIPs, which isn't going to happen. Or as Kimball mentioned, a change in the board codes, which also isn't likely.

    I understand wanting to be spoiler free. I am spoiler free myself, but I do subscribe to the SW Insider (don't read Ep.3 stuff though), and I do visit Star Wars websites, including this one, so I know that the possibility is out there that I could be spoiled. But even given the Yoda with lightsaber icon that came out prior to AOTC, I was spoiled more by Celebration 2 (and only because RA Salvator said something in his panel on the novel) than I was by anything I saw here. I know we aren't going to see icons that are the equivilant of Qui-Gon being struck down by Darth Maul in TPM, so I'm content to stay.

    Not only is it near impossible to limit icons to certain forums, it also isn't fair. It would basically require all 3SA posters to only post to that forum, or to post under a different name (and non-Ep3 icon) to the rest of the boards. Unless people who don't want to see the simplest mug shot stay only in the Non-Spoiler forums, they might see an icon they wish they hadn't - even in FanForce.

    This topic has come up time and again (what does and doesn't constitute a spoiler) in my own FF and there isn't really a way the boards can satisfy those who are ok and want a mugshot and those that do not. If people are really adament about not seeing anything (which will be difficult once trailers, tv spots, posters, magazine covers (even if one avoids articals, etc)) and still want to visit the JC, they do have the simple option of blocking icons from being loaded on their browser. That way they are protected, and the large population of 3SA can enjoy icons that relate to the movie but reveal no plot points.
     
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