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Discussion Episode IX Story Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - IX: SA' started by Darth Formidious, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Revealing Luke didn't die but passed out from fatigue?

    Reveal he did re-establish his Jedi Academy and Rey didn't notice the underwater settlement where Luke actually lives?
     
  2. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    The next film almost has to be treated like a soft reboot. I do mean VERY soft reboot but soft reboot nevertheless.

    It's hard to restart it and finish it all in one movie when there's no real place to restart it. It's as if they have do the same thing with IX which is make you rethink what you saw in TLJ.

    Any battle with Kylo will be extremely anticlimactic. Seeing Luke beat Vader in ROTJ and Anakin beating Dooku in ROTS were great because they both had their @#$% handed to them in the previous movies.
     
    Jo Lucas, Paparazzo and kalzeth like this.
  3. TheLateAdmiralPiett

    TheLateAdmiralPiett Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2004
    You guys are missing the bigger picture here. We have Rey vs. Kylo to look forward to. We don't know for sure if Luke is even "dead," since all we know is he disappeared. He pulled off a technique we've never seen in the saga before, that much is clear. We know Mark is signed on for IX, so he'll definitely be around in some way. We know they have to work something out for Leia/Carrie, which should be interesting to see. Chewie, Threepio and Artoo are still around. Poe and Finn are still around, and there's a new dynamic going on between Kylo and Hux. And as Luke said, "The war is just beginning."

    I have very high hopes for IX, and I know I won't be disappointed.
     
  4. Alien Vanguard

    Alien Vanguard Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Maybe he needs the One Ring to become corporeal again.

    In all seriousness, I believe he became one with the force. He went out like a powerful Jedi Master should. Just in a different way than mere lightsaber dueling.
     
    Darthur C. Clarke likes this.
  5. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Does Rey have any reason to want to redeem Kylo? And how exactly does one get redeemed when there is nobody to defeat, thus giving you redemption? Is Kylo going to just buy Christmas presents for eveyone and carve the holiday turkey? (or porg)
     
    kalzeth and Sable de luz like this.
  6. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    You have an unbeatable enemy in their billions, the heroes are only a few on board the Falcon. After the inevitable death of Chewbacca and the none appearance of Leia, there is only one thing that'll happen and I think it's blatantly obvious...


    Rey will persuade Kylo to turn to the light, it'll be the moment when the FO victory seems certain, after Kylo kills Hux the FO will all turn good.

    Abrams and Kennedy will tell everyone it's the ending everyone wanted and it leaves the future an open book to be explored.
     
    kalzeth and Yora like this.
  7. Sable de luz

    Sable de luz Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    I think RJ saccrificed almost everything to build Kylo Ren. Sadly many of us still dont find him interesting at all.

    Luke Skywalker, Snoke, the New Republic, Han,... all of them when to the paper bin to build his character. Even Rey who was TFA higtlight lost a lot of weight as a character and felt like a plot device for Kylo.

    And to make things worst we dont have Leia, who was the only character whose interaction with Kylo might I had found interesting.

    We have a bigger problem than what we think.
     
    Twain, Kurenai24, Hopeless and 3 others like this.
  8. Sable de luz

    Sable de luz Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    who is exactly the FO?

    Because I dont give a damn about it. They cant be built as the baddies, they have no character behind Hux, who doesnt worth a lot.

    See, the empire had lots of admiral and ranks like Moff Tarkin, and you always got the feeling they were the space nazis. The FO is nothing more than storm troopers, theres no build up.

    Against who is supposed to turn Kylo? Theres no time to build a moff tarkin, and Hux has not the weight for the role. He is not more than a whinning teenager ... like Kylo.

    This trilogy is a mess.
     
  9. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012

    The FO, those kids that were taken to form Snoke's military. They've grown up living a life of strict order, take out Snoke, Phasma and Hux and they'd follow anyone.
     
  10. Sable de luz

    Sable de luz Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015

    I really dont care about them as much as I care about Kylo

    A lot should be done in a movie to make mi root for Kylo Ren insted of those nameless military. Theres just not enough time. Random first order wont kill Han Solo or Luke Skywalker, or dont do anything while a system of planets its being blown by the starkiller
     
  11. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Unless Hux is revealed to be some sort of secret Force user who has been controlling all of this, that's pretty much anticlimactic too. Kill a normal guy...ooohhh exciting!

    Once again, why would Rey be interested in redeeming Kylo? James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Dylan Roof, Stephan Paddock, marathon bombers, etc etc etc.....should anyone have been interested in redeeming any of them, living or not? Is the message of Star Wars "forgiving is the right thing to do"?

    Rey has nothing to be conflicted about. That's the problem.
     
    SkywalkerOG likes this.
  12. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    With another big twist

    [​IMG]
     
  13. sheri1967

    sheri1967 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2006
    I agree that IX will be a challenge with so many characters killed in VIII and no Leia

    There certainly needs to be a time jump to give the rebellion and FO time to rebuild.

    The only way I can see Kylo being redeemed at this point is if (and that is a big if) there is more to his reason for staying dark than we are privy to and we will learn more in ix. As much as I want the Skywalkers to continue, I am not convince this will happen.

    I have faith that JJ will make a brilliant movie though and I will enjoy speculating for the next 2 years with you all.
     
    Darth Smurf likes this.
  14. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    Remember what Carrie said and what Kathleen Kennedy has repeated over and over and over again....this is about FAMILY.

    I will have to watch it finally to see if that notion comes out at all and how that will reflect this saga going forward. I DO think Anakin will show up in IX. However, if this is all about family, I wonder if Rey is even part of that.

    I also think we will HAVE to see some sort of villain that is bigger and badder, even if it is a group, to serve as a tool for Kylo's supposed redemption. Even though Kylo is sure to die, I'd say he has to be redeemed so that the Skywalkers can be "together" as one family in the netherworld.

    Hux just doesn't cut it.

    It's just that JJ is a great starter who set up a lot in TFA. Is he a closer? Some of the greatest starting pitchers can't cut it as closers. He's great at setting up mysteries. Can he resolve them all or at least the important ones.
     
    sheri1967 likes this.
  15. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    What family?
    With Carrie Fisher gone shouldn't they have altered the ending to account for that?
     
  16. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    It's all about family....a VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL family, but family nevertheless.

    Kind of like Mordred and King Arthur. Yet it was Galahad, a non-related knight, that allegedly found the Holy Grail. But Galahad was the iligitimate son of Lancelot.
     
  17. Yora

    Yora Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    The only thing I can be sure is that we will see the Knights of Ren in episode IX. They were showed in TFA and mentioned in TLJ. It's not a coincidence. They are maybe already all dead and only part of a past mystery, who knows? Maybe we will only see them in flashback but I don't think that LF dropped them, especially since JJ is responsible of their creation.

    They are one of the biggest question left in TLJ : if Kylo's turn to the dark side is almost believable, you have to explain to me why six of Luke's students decided to follow Kylo? What happened?
     
    Varouneire and kalzeth like this.
  18. Chunkydumb

    Chunkydumb Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2014
    I want the Knights of Ren badly in IX but how would you bring them in now without it feeling shoehorned?
     
    Yora likes this.
  19. Yora

    Yora Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Me too. TFA and TLJ happen on a short period of time, they could be on a mission for Kylo. At this point, everything is possible. The only thing that reassures me is Rey's vision in TFA which I'm still convinced is a vision of the future.
     
  20. kalzeth

    kalzeth Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Here's where I would go with it, trying to keep it in the rough spirit of what Disney has done, but build some excitement, setup more stories, and create links between the new mains and the old crew. It might be a bit cliche, but I think it's pretty interesting and I'd want to watch it.


    Time skip 3 years The Resistance has rallied a majority of the galaxy and started to arm. Shipyards are in full production on new ships (we first see E wings and K wings now in canon). Military has swelled with Finn and Poe as the real leaders. Finn commands the ground troops, Poe the navy. We see tension in high command with Poe wanting to press an attack and Finn urging more caution and time to build military strength. No mention of Rey. We find out Leia died in a FO attack, saving Poe.


    Kylo has consolidated the First Order. We see him training with the KoR while questioning an older Grand Admiral Rae or even Thrawn about the military campaigns. We find that the FO is gradually winning worlds, but it's a slow campaign. Kylo seems disinterested in the details focusing on the darkside, a search for an apprentice, and an embrace of the Dark Side force. We see another Kylo fit of rage when he asks one of the Knights if there has been a sign of Rey, but nobody knows where she is.


    Fast forward to Tatooine where we see Rey training under the tutelage of Luke's spirit. She's based in Obi Wan's hut. We see her doing good deeds for moisture farmers by stopping Tusken attacks and even killing a Krayt Dragon. After one adventure she comes back and Anakin is there in ghost form. Luke is urging her to learn patience, Anakin talks about how the Darkness in Kylo must be stopped and Rey needs to go now. Rey goes to Mos Eisley and has an interaction with a refugee child whose parents were killed by the FO. This convinces her Anakin is right and she heads back to the Resistance.


    Exciting reunion in Resistance leadership with Rey and Finn. Rey says she is going off to kill Kylo and to end the war. Finn tells her he will go with her and a team of commandos. She refuses and goes herself. Poe says they should strike while Kylo is distracted.


    Rey goes to FO base (Mustafar now). She doesn't go stealth, but firm in her belief walks through the front door. She mows down stormtroopers and confronts Kylo. Crushes half the KoR in a sick fight. Kylo joins they battle in Vader's palace. He captures her, knocking her out with his pommel.


    Rey regains consciousness in a deluxe, but dark room. Kylo is sitting in the chair. He tries to turn her, he paints a picture of an orderly world without hunger, pain, crime or war. She is reluctant and doesn't believe in his vision of the galaxy. But then he tells her to imagine a world with no orphans and that gets her. She agrees to see what he's up to.


    Flash to a few battles of FO grand admiral rolling up planets and some devastating defeats for the Resistance. Poe is apoplectic and urging more aggressive attacks. Finn still wants to give Rey more time.


    We see Rey shadowing Kylo and his leads planning their conquest. He takes her to war torn worlds and shows FO troopers bringing food to the masses. He takes her to an unconquered world where they go around in disguise and see starvation and crime. She begins to see what he's talking about. Rey starts to fall in love with his strength and idealism. We get some light romance scenes, some scenes of Rey getting to know Thrawn/Sloane and maybe even getting to know one of the KoR (maybe we call him Kam Solusar). Kylo presents Rey with Battle Armor and they begin to lead some of the ground assaults. Rey wakes up one night in bed with Kylo and gets a vision for Anakin begging her to end Kylo right there, she refuses and tells him they are doing good for the galaxy, he tells her he made that mistake once and regrets it.


    Flash to the resistance. We see the leadership discussing details of failed ground companions and they see a holo of Kylo, the Knights and a new dark warrior. Finn knows its Rey. He conceives a plan to rescue her, Poe is all in on it. They form a ground assault team to rescue her. It's Chewie, Rose, Finn, R2, a mandalorian, and a bothan (for fan service).


    Flash back to Mustafar castle. Rey is exploring. She finds a secret area. There she sees experiments Kylo is conducting on real people. She also finds Hux rotting in a cell. He's been driven insane by Kylo and has lightsaber burns all across his body. He tells her of how the FO kidnaps children, Kylo murdering those who don't support him, and how dissidence results in death. She runs away crying not knowing what to think.
    The assault team sneaks in the middle of the night. They almost get caught several times. It's tense. They find Rey alone in the bedroom. There's a scene where Finn tries to convince her to come back. She's torn given what she just learned from Hux and what she has seen before. Out of nowhere Kylo, the KoR and the leaders of the FO burst into the room. Kylo cuts down Finn, chopping off his leg. The KoR subdue Chewbacca in a scene where we finally see Chewie kicking some major butt throwing bodies around and fighting heroically before being sapped down and cuffed.


    We hear an explosion. Flash to the Mustafar command room where some FO officers talk about how they are under attack. A squadron has launched an attack. We see Poe on the command bridge telling everyone to bombard the castle to smithereens. People protest that Finn is in there and Rey might be too. Poe says this is their only chance to get Kylo and the FO leaders. He says burn it to the ground.


    Kylo gloats talking about how they fell for his trap. Rey begs him to let them go. He laughs at her at says she'll do what he says. Rey attacks. We get a 1:1 fight but Kylo wins. He rages about how he's omnipotent. The castle is shaking from the pounding attacks of the ships and then we hear a blaster bolt and Kylo falls over. Grand Admiral Thrown/Sloane is standing behind him.


    Chaos ensues. The KoR start to attack the Grand Admiral, stormtroopers actually being competent take one of the KoR down. Chewbacca picks up Finn, they pull a crying and devastated Rey away and make an escape in the Falcon as the castle falls down around them. The remaining KoR run off. We see Kylo's dead body buried under rubble. The storm troopers and Grand Admiral run to an escape shuttle and get out as the castle goes down.


    Somber reunion at the Resistance base. Poe is cheering but Finn decks him saying in his haste to take down Kylo he almost killed them. Poe says the ends justify the means. Finn says Poe should have warned them. Rey faints. The fighting stops they rush to her side. Next scene is the infirmary. 3-1B droid tells them she's fine, better than fine even. She pregnant [the Skywalker line then continues].


    Last scene. We see the Grand Admiral aboard a SSD. She asks about the fleet strength. Then turns and walks down. Exits a turbo lift and goes into a cabin.The Grand Admiral opens a hidden door within and says, "It's done." Camera pans to a decimated Snoke who has no lower half and is basically plugged into a life giving machine. All we see are his glaring eyes and the sucking sound of the machine. Movie ends.

    Opportunities for some cool things:
    • Mandalorians join the resistance. We get a cool Mandalorian warrior as part of Finn's rescue squad
    • Fan service to Thrawn or Sloane
    • No crazy things in Tatooine but we can have some throwbacks with moisture farms, Wuher's cantina and Obi's hut
    • Open ending with lots of potential for an Episode X
    • Skywalker line continues hopefully with twins
    • True three faction ongoing - KoR led by Kam, Snoke and the Grand Admiral, Resistance (with infighting) Return to OT aliens on Tatooine
    • A good return for Anakin Chewbacca isn't just a plot device, but we see him rocking it being a core member of the team that saves Rey. Same with R2
    • Adds complexity and nuance to relationships in FO, in Resistance and with Rey
     
  21. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Establish that Snoke had them as Force enforces on six different planets the FO have in their possession.


    Now with Kylo in charge, he summons them all back.
     
  22. Lord Miggler

    Lord Miggler Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Do people really think Kylo can still be redeemed ? that ships sailed.
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  23. GoJohnnyGo

    GoJohnnyGo Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2012



    The Kylo redemption story has already been done... So I think it would not even really be that good.
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  24. HispAnakin

    HispAnakin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2017
    I need to watch it again to really get a feel. The ‘saber fights’ where meh. Not at one time did i feel Kylo and Rey were in danger. While some cool, crowd pleasing moments that fight fell flat.

    I was finnaly getting into Snoke AND...hes dead...

    Luke, Poe and Kylo drove the story, everone else was auxiliary. I flet like Rose abd Finn were just given something to do.

    BDT i thought was great, the bit he was on screen, still think ‘DJ’ is Ezra - i know i know, but that scar, why so similar? Why not a one slash but TWO that are identical? I get it different parts of the face. The attempt and subjefuge and disinformaion is a put off, we still know nothing about Rey or Snoke. Finally what to do with Leia?
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  25. Kopy.Kunoichi

    Kopy.Kunoichi Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    The central theme to this movie was letting go of the past and moving toward a new future, and at the same time, we are getting back to our roots. The Resistance is once more a struggling Rebellion against a FO that is also undergoing major changes.
    Ben thinks that by cutting himself off from everything in his past, he can be free. But he can't, and that is what is tearing him apart.
    Rey needs to cut herself off from the chains of her family abandoning her, and I think she has.
    The old guard is passing the torch on to the next generation - Han, Luke, Leia (eventually), and Snoke, have left vacant the thrones on which they sat and the new blood is taking their respective seats. But where is it all going? I don't know...and that delights me as much as it frustrates me.
    The New Republic is gone and the FO cannot win, so what can replace it? We know what the rebels are fighting against, but what are they fighting for? There clearly needs to be a new form of government. I believe the best solution for this would be a Federation of sorts, much like the government in Star Trek. Planets and systems have autonomy, but they agree to follow an overarching constitution designed to prevent new "empires" from forming. For this to be done, there needs to be a significant time jump. Do I think Star Wars IX will actually do this? Not really. The prequels had one thing really going for them - they made you aware of the politics. TFA ignored politics almost completely, and TLJ made you question what we were fighting for. There has to be something the rebels fight for, and I don't think it's going to be a new New Republic. What will it be? I wish I knew.
    Concerning the characters themselves...Ben will be redeemed. That was always where this was going, and TLJ only confirms that further. They spent too much time developing his character not to follow through now. That's why the ending was bittersweet. At one moment, we were all in the theater yelling "hell yeah!" when Ben's twitchy fingers spun that lightsaber around and shut that ugly bastard up at the climax of his "I know every thought in your head" speech. Then we cheered some more when he and Rey took out the guards. Then the power vacuum tempted him to take the seat vacated by his master, and we all collectively groaned. He took one step forward and two steps back. He's hurt by Rey's rejection and you can understand his hatred for the uncle he believes tried to murder him. He's running forward at full speed with no direction, no plan - only instinct and raw emotion...typical Skywalker male.
    Rey shut the door on Ben, showing that she will not follow him. But their connection is so powerful, I cannot see them staying enemies forever. He needs a purpose. Another major theme of this movie was leadership, and realizing what a true leader is. Ben is not a leader, he is simply more powerful than everyone else and can assume the role without anyone putting up much fight. But he will grow weary of the ins and out of command. His purpose was to destroy the Jedi. They are gone. Rey is not a Jedi, nor do I see her really becoming one. And I certainly don't believe Ben's new purpose in life is to kill Rey, even if she did say "no" to being his queen. So how to we redeem Ben in a satisfying manner, besides allowing him to sacrifice himself for the good? That is the billion dollar question.
    So, 10 things I'd like to see in the next movie:
    1. A better form of government worth fighting for, and strong characters that fill those necessary roles
    2. Rey creating a coalition of force sensitive beings and broadening our understanding of the force beyond Jedi and Sith...much like TCW did
    3. Ben destroying the FO from the inside out (preferably by design rather than incompetence). He must atone for his crimes, but at the same time, there needs to be forgiveness. There is no such thing as too far gone, we always have a choice and the whole point of redemption is that no one deserves it. Redemption only works with forgiveness, and I believe Rey can forgive him and accept him.
    4. Finn/Rose. Perhaps Rey/Ben if done the right way with a hell of a time lapse (like in an epilogue set decades into the future)...or Rey/Poe, but only if they have chemistry that is on par with Rey/Ben, which is a tall order.
    5. Somebody find a bottomless shaft and throw Hux down it for the love of all that is good and holy...or just throw him a teensy bit harder into a wall next time
    6. Anakin and Obi-Wan showing up as force ghosts to impart some wisdom on these impetuous youths
    7. A wedding. I love weddings. Drinks all 'round.
    8. More Maz. I still want to know where the hell she got Luke's old lightsaber. I want to see her helping Rey craft something new with force training others.
    9. BB-8 being Poe's wingman on an awkward date - I don't even care with whom.
    10. Instead of Rey and Ben rising to prominence by default due to the enormity of their power, I would rather see them step into a simple, humble, role at the end. A happy ending for both of them would mean stepping back from the titles of hero, legend, supreme leader, and master. Let them bridge the divide between light and dark and show the next generation how to exist with both inside you and more importantly, how to coexist with others. I would like to see them do away with with the master/ apprentice protocol and introduce a form of discipleship that involves partnerships - pairing students more light inclined with those more dark inclined to preserve balance and keep the tension.

    That's all I've got for now. I don't care what anyone says, I think TLJ was excellent and I can't wait to see it again. I'm looking forward to the next one and all the possibilities.