ST Episode IX Story Discussion

Yeah, I was really hoping they'd go more for a "Weekend At Bernie's" approach, with Rey dragging Luke's corpse around, but considering that he disappeared, I guess that's off the table.

 

Luke used to speak even to the great grandkid Skywalkers via Force ghost so him as a force ghost ensures we can spend time with him in stories forever.

 

maybe he force projected somewhere else.

 

They could do the unused from ESB/ROTJ plot point of Obi-Wan and/or Yoda physically coming back from the netherworld.

But with Luke. That is one above what they did.

 

Aw, thanks @jedijax

 

Perhaps if we look at the endings of the other middle chapters and how these developments were ultimately added to or turned on their heads for drama we can get a better idea of IX. If the situation is flipped I will change the font color to purple. If the hint was added to and paid off as a hint I'll make it green.

Key plot points set up toward end of AOTC:
Death Star plans.
Anakin thinks Obi-Wan is jealous of him and holding him back.
Obi-Wan seems thankful for the clone army that Master Sifo-Dyas created for them.
War has begun against Nate, Dooku, Grevious and their droid army.
Jedi have been told Sidious controls the Senate by Dooku but think he's lying.
Padme has heard Anakin discuss killing women and children in a fit or rage and stands by him. Anakin and Padme seem happy and in love.

Payoff of those AOTC setups:
Death Star early construction.
The clone army attacks the Jedi and wipes them out.
Anakin continues to think Obi-Wan is jealous and was holding him back.
The war is mostly an excuse to allow Sidious to build his Empire.
Yoda's advice that Dooku is likely lying is wrong. Sidious was controlling the Senate via Palpatine.
Padme stands by Anakin again.
Anakin changes sides fully, joins Sidious, and becomes Darth Vader and chokes pregnant Padme and she dies after giving birth to twins.

Biggest plot points not setup in this middle film that will be later:
Anakin having visions of Padme's death and wanting to stop it and that being a driving force for his fall.
Order 66 being purchased within the clone army purchase order to instantly turn on all Jedi and kill them.
Palpatine and Sidious are one in the same (though obviously strongly hinted at and known by anyone who grew up with the OT first)

What was setup in AOTC that didn't pay off in the next film:
Master Syfo-Dyas story.
Lack of Droidekas and their personal forcefield tech or why.
Any kind of rights or ethics related to inheriting an army of humans that are all clones and just sending them off to fight to the death.
Boba Fett's fate (for a time).
Why Dooku seemed so leaky with info (and then later didn't tell the Jedi just as his boss has ordered his head to be cut off)
Why Yoda and the Jedi found it so hard to spot Palpatine's influence for so long.
How Anakin and Padme kept their marriage and relationship relatively secret.


Key plot points of TESB that are setup:
Leia loves Han. Han always knew it.
Lando isn't as bad as we thought and helps them.
Force ghosts can be more than heard from beyond. They can be seen and seem alive.
There is "another" force user who could become a big part of the VI potentially.
Luke has heard that Vader is his father, jumped off a ledge to avoid him, and been given a new robotic hand.
A connection to his twin Leia has been established.
Vader asks if the hyperspace drive has been damaged and is told yes.
Vader reaches out through the force and talks to Luke to join him again.
Luke asks aloud why Obi-Wan didn't tell him.
R2 fixes the hyperspace drive and the Falcon jumps.
Luke has decided to keep this reveal secret from others including Leia.
Luke puts his arm around Leia in a brotherly way.
They briefly discuss a plan for how they will get Han back.
The Rebel Alliance is shown to still have a sizable convoy and hasn't been defeated.

Payoff of those TESB ending setups:
Luke gets to hear why Obi-Wan didn't tell him.
Leia helps to rescue Han.
Lando stays good to the end and plays a big role in the finale.
There's more than just Obi-Wan as a Force ghost. Others can get to this place too.
Luke decides he won't do what his side wants him to do and kill Vader and he also won't do what Vader wants and join him. He goes his own way.
The connection to Leia pays off with the reveal she's his twin sister. She's also "the other."
Luke eventually tells Leia his connection to her and their connection to Vader.
They do get Han back as planned.
The Rebel Alliance ends up being large enough to finish the job against the Empire. Not quite finish them off entirely in ROTJ but deliver a huge blow to their movement that basically does the job.
Vader ends up killing Sidious and coming back to being Anakin in the end before dying.
Anakin is seen reunited with his masters in Force heaven for killing Sidious and rediscovering himself.

Biggest plot points not setup in TESB that are later:
A second Death Star being built.
Luke becoming a fully trained Jedi.
The specifics of how Anakin was related to Luke.
Who the mom was in all of this.
The specifics of how the kid(s) were taken.
Confirmation of whether Obi-Wan had kept the plan from Yoda or if Yoda was in on it.
Who "the other" was.


What was setup in TESB that didn't pay off in the next film:
The specifics of how Lando and Han knew each other or what that old thing was between them.
Why the other (Leia) wasn't taken as seriously as a potential Padawan.
The extent of what Force ghosts can or can't do or who they can interact with.
The reasons why Vader turned to Sidious (not fully explained until the prequels many years later).
Strong details on the mother in all of this (not fully explained until the prequels many years later).
The story of Sidious and his rise to power before he dies (Not fully explained until the prequels many years later)

Conclusion:
When I look at II and V I see a pattern of a few expectation subversions (Purple) that move in the opposite directions of where II and V seemed to leave things but also a pattern in which many of the setups are added to and built off of in a relatively straightforward way from where things were left (Green). I also see that some of the mystery boxes of interest to us from II and V weren't fully explained until years later in other episodes or EU materials. This exercise also reminded me the sizable amount of new plot changes that can occur in the final films that allow for some of those purple moments highlighted above. Moments like Anakin's inability to save his mom then leading to his fear of inability to save Padme when he has a similar vision are what allow for that. Moments like Luke finding a third option between what his Jedi masters and Father asked of him allow for that subverted expectation. This also reminds that a big reveal, complete with some minor exposition that helps explain it briefly, is still possible since the entire explanation for the Skyalker family only was provided in episode VI. Last but not least it's a good reminder that some stuff that matters to us may not matter as much to JJ and Terrio because there were several things even that George had setup that didn't really get explained all that much until later.

What does this mean for IX?:
The Resistance has been decimated and is left with only enough people to fit on a ship.
The specifics of why the call for help went unanswered isn't known. Were other worlds still gathering intel on the FO and the situation with Star Killer base and the specifics of what happened at Hosnian Prime? Is there some other reason?
Rey and Ben Solo shared an intimate moment uncommon between heroes and villains and both wanted to work with each other and put the past aside to do so.
Rey has made it clear she prioritizes the Resistance over Ben Solo.
Kylo Ren has made it clear he prioritizes the FO over Rey.
Rey has shown she would prefer not to kill him if she can help it.
Rey and Kylo Ren still seem to be able to sense each other even after Snoke's death.
Luke has sacrified his mortal body but may become a Force Ghost and Rey states there's peace and purpose in him now.
The galaxy weeks/months later seems aware of the showdown on Crait. People seem inspired, including other potential force users who'd previously been living in hiding.
Rey has books and wants to become a Jedi.
Rey only has a broken saber split in two pieces.
D'acy mentioned a contact in the outer region.
Leia was exposed to space.
Kylo Ren has no one to kill at the top in order to become good because he is the big bad currently at the top.

Which of those go purple (subverted/inverted/flipped?) Which of those go green (simply added to logically from where things seem to be moving)?

 

I’ve said elsewhere that I think IX will be set more or less where TLJ left off.
Very much in the mould of the LOTR trilogy.
It goes some way to explaining the rise of Rey I think

 

If there is a time gap of two years do you all think Rey will been in touch with Ghost Luke that whole time?

 

So far the Sequel Trilogy has felt like the final chapter being told in a book who’s narrative began the day after RotJ ended. Given the short time that’s passed in universe, Rey’s progress has been extraordinary.
And that’s because I think it was decided early on that the 2nd and 3rd episodes would pick up literally where the previous had ended.

 

Alright I'm going to answer my own question, even if there is a time jump I'm betting Rey hasn't seen Force Ghost Luke at any point in between TLJ and Ep. IX. She'll be seeing him for the first time in Ep. IX.

 

I'd like to know what Rey would be doing in 2 years. She is not scavenging (or is she?) or learning from Luke (or is she?). Maybe seeking Force sensitives? Teaching herself in private? Selling ice cream?

 

My prediction is going to be a little different. I think the gap will be longer, like 5 years, and characters will even have a different look to reflect that. Rey will be introduced as more mature, and more in-tune with The Force kind of how Luke was introduced in ROTJ. She will have some kind of dream or vision sequence - maybe several - that indicate she is communicating with Luke and maybe other FG's as well but only through cryptic messages she can't completely understand. It'll be dark and mysterious.

Then during the second act there will be a big moment where Luke pops up when she's not dreaming and it'll cash in on the surprise factor.

 

I had pictured Rey as sort of a Force Cult leader.
A collection of devoted padawans following her about. Finn bothered that she isn't as approachable as she once was. Detached and trying to be a True Jedi.

Needing to be reminded that this might not be the best path.

 

Quick question: Will one of the main characters wear a hat and if so which one?

 

I think Finn will wear a hat at some point. I predict he will have a lot of costume changes. Lando will teach him how to be a gentleman/spy.

 

Probable

 

So I've been thinking about this alot lately. If there is a time jump and the first order has actually taken over the galaxy will they be still known as the first order or will there be a new galactic Empire being lead by Emperor Ren? As a former military leader I would say that titles such as the first order and supreme leader sound more like titles for a specific movement or military power. If you are leading an entire galaxy by both military and political might, then calling it an empire seems more fitting. They have been calling themselves the first order for about 30 years but the whole time they were just a radical following of the Old ways of the Empire, now controlling the galaxy they can bring back the new Empire. They can even connect all the canon material in a way that makes sense. I'm not a writer but I'll give it a shot. The Dark side presence that talked to Palpatine from the unknown region had him set these plans into motion because he foreseen another Skywalker being born. This entity new that it was the will of the Darkside for a Skywalker to rule the galaxy. Palpatine once thought Vader was destined to be more powerful than him or Yoda , he just didn't foresee him getting crippled by Obi wan. Whatever communicated to Palpatine knew a Skywalker was going to be the best fit to lead the darkside. This voice could have been speaking to Snoke also, knowing he would be good at manipulating Ben Solo. Or they could just let the aftermath books, and any other tie-ins just mean nothing. It is Disney, they got their money, who cares about a compelling overall story. I'm not saying my idea is good, I'm just saying any idea is better than discarding important plot elements in a huge overall connecting story such as star wars.

 

I touched on this in another thread but assuming that Luke's heroic sacrifice has inspired people throughout the galaxy I wonder if Ep. IX will show Kylo Ren stewing over the irony that he and Snoke wanted to kill Luke to end the Jedi and the Resistance but now that Luke is dead he's given the galaxy more hope than they've had in years? I also wonder if Hux will throw this in Kylo's face? Maybe Hux will be all, "Your plan to kill Skywalker was supposed to break the back of the resistance and yet his death has done nothing but strengthen their will."

 

We need some characters with glasses. I feel that characters with glasses is an underrepresented group.

 

There will be a big ceremony-scene early on where Kylo establishes a "second" or "new" Galactic Empire and becomes emperor. Predictable? Maybe, but I think JJ won't be able to resist. Rey will probably be watching in disguise on a secret mission. As to links with Palpatine and Snoke, I fully agree that it's important for them to be included somehow but I doubt that will happen. If it does, I think it will be something very simple, like Snoke is Palpatine, resurrected with dark side magic. Hopefully they give some plausible explanation for why Ben turned evil.

 

I wouldn't get caught up in military titles and such as the FO doesn't exactly make sense from that perspective in other obvious ways. Note- The knob on the steering mechanism in the tie fighter requires the pilot to turn it full circle to adjust it such to fire on a target. Not only is that senseless and unnecessary but it is exactly the same as the one in ANH/ESB. Vader is manipulating that when he is blown aside during the attack on the death star. Military aspects in SW are crap these dayz,....

 

It final act of the film needs to have an amazing, very memorable moment Anakin burning -


and Vader turning on the Emperor -

 

I’m willing to bet that’s exactly what happens.

 

I've got it my head that Rey will return to Ahch-To. The question I have is if there's a time jump why would she return to Ahch-To months possibly years after the events of TLJ? Why would she wait and why would she go back unprompted? Maybe she she will be prompted? Rey will receive some sort of message in Act I of Ep. IX which will prompt her to return to Ahch-To? It'll be the Ep. IX equivalent of, "go to the Dagobah".

Or maybe it's not so much a message she receives but rather something that's been on her mind that she's been working up the courage to face? Or maybe it's both? Maybe Rey is haunted by Kylo's "you are nobody" comments from TLJ and she's having dreams about the cave on Ahch-To. While she seemingly accepted Kylo's words in TLJ I could see her going back to Ahch-To to look in the mirror one more time for one last extra bit of clarification.

Either way if Rey returns to Ahch-To I hope they show that she's going back for a bigger reason than to collect Luke's belongings, especially if there's a time jump. It would be weird if she's all, "welp, it's been a year and half since Luke died. I guess I should swing by Ahch-To to clean out his hut."