ST Episode IX Story Discussion

Was just about to say the same thing RE: Dagobah. If there is a time jump, which most speculation seems to indicate is the case, it could be simply that she's getting back to Ach-To as soon as she was able.

 

Yeah maybe so. I suppose saving the galaxy does take up a lot of time. Either way I'm really into the idea of them foreshadowing her return to Ahch-To. I'd like a little buildup to it rather than her just out of the blue telling people at the end of Act I, "I'll meet up with you all later. I've got a thing to do."

 

She's already got the books, and Luke is probably not there anymore, so the only reason to go back would be the mirror cave? Personally I hope we've seen the last of Ach-to. It's visually uninspired and segregated from the mythos of the OT and PT. If they're going to revisit a location then Dagobah, Tatooine or the Jedi Temple on Coruscant would all be better.

 

What if Rey goes there to confront Kylo Ren, who after years of off and on searching finally found the location of the island planet?

 

The mirror cave is huge. I could see Rey wanting confirmation regarding what Kylo said about her parents. I could also see her returning to the cave fully believing what Kylo said about her nobody parents but still wanting the mirror to give her more information about her folks. She could also go back and ask the mirror to give her info about Ben Solo's fall. Maybe she'll ask the mirror to give her info about Luke?

While she's on Ahch-To it wouldn't surprise me if she finds Luke's green light saber too. If she goes back to Ahch-To and Luke's green lightsaber is there it seems to me that it weird for her NOT to take it. It also seems fitting for Rey to construct a double bladed lightsaber with Anakin's old saber on one side and Luke's green saber on the other, together forming a weapon similar to Rey's staff. I just hope she doesn't call somebody up on a video phone and ignite her double sided saber. Who does something like that?!?

@Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid I think it'll be the other way around. Rey goes to Ahch-To first and Kylo and the KoR find her there.

 

Whether it’s from the cave or something else, there will probably be some kind of vision scene. Both TFA and TLJ had them, and it would be an opportunity to solve the Rey lineage and Kylo/Ben/Snoke/Luke mystery boxes. I just hope it’s not from the cave because there are so many tangled issues in that particular oracle. Was it really a “dark side” nexus? If so, where was its “light side” counterpart on the island? How does it inform the Jedi ethos if in fact that was their point of origin? Will answering these questions make TLJ a better or worse movie? It just seems like a bad idea that would make a predictable moment seem even more contrived than it needs to be. There are plenty of other ways to reveal information, and for a big section of the fan base, the entire setting of Ach-to is problematic.

 

My question is "Why would Rey go back to Ahch-To?" What's her motivation? I'm thinking this through as I write this. Please let me know what you think.

Rey was already on the island. Yoda says she took everything she need with her when she left. Rey already looked in the mirror. If she goes back to the mirror will she see something new, or will she just see a rerun from before? That seems like looking backwards for Rey and I think she'd be looking forward to new things. I'm also not seeing her going back for anything else Luke left behind.

Luke returned to Dagobah because he promised Yoda he would come back to finish his training. More than that he owed it to his Master after letting him down. Instead of basic training in the Force, Yoda and Obi-Wan give Luke information and closure. Not what he went there for, but what he needed. Unlike Yoda Luke isn't bound to a single location, so there is no one for Rey to see on the Island. The nuns are show to be caretakers, not Jedi or even scholars of the first temple. So no answers there.

Why would Kylo Ren want to find Ahch-To? Kylo was made a fool when he unwittingly dueled the harmless Force-projection of Luke Skywalker from across the galaxy. Besides making Kylo look like total student, it showed how much more powerful and knowledge Luke is with the Force than Kylo and probably even Snoke. I don't think Kylo knew Luke was that strong. Since Kylo didn't know Luke could do that, he might think it's new skills Luke learned on the island - when probably Luke had that ability for many years but would never used it. I bet Kylo would like to learn this power and thinks the answer to this and many other secrets he can be found on Ahch-To.

Now Snoke read Rey's mind to learn where Luke was hiding. But Kylo Ren never found out this information. So it might take a few years for Kylo to track down the location, especially if he can't look for it all the time.

Why wouldn't Kylo Ren send the Knights of Ren to find Ahch-To? Because he doesn't want to share this new power, or even worse have someone else learn it before him. So he's scared someone else could become more powerful. That's why he needs to find it on his own. He'd be more likely to leave the Knights of Ren to run the First Order than he would send them to the First Jedi Temple.

Maybe Rey sees this as an opportunity to confront Kylo Ren when he is vulnerable.

Thoughts on this speculation?

 

She'd go back for the Porgs.
They'd flap down and surround her, softly squawking, and amplify her contact with The Force and she would hear their wisdom in her mind.

They will tell her the right thing to do

 

I honestly can't think of a reason Ren would need to use force projection. He leads the first order and maybe the galaxy, he may die using it and I don't think a projection can physically harm someone. If I were Ren I would be looking for things like force lightning, the legends material Darth bane thought bomb, nihalis' force hunger were he destroys entire planets by draining the force. You know, bad guy things. Oh! and immortality.

 

These movies have done enough poaching of legacy items from the OT to give them to Rey. She's inheriting everything by default, no emotional or familial connection, no sense these are items she's earned. I think it would be wise to leave Luke's green saber well enough alone at this juncture.

 

She goes back because she still has questions about her family that the mirror cave might be able to answer. Kylo goes there because he learns Rey is there.

 

I suppose, but I think it’s more likely Luke threw the green saber away, just as he sank the X-Wing to the bottom of the ocean. He only wore the Jedi robes in a last rites kind of way.

 

I hate that you could be right about that!

 

With Snoke gone and Luke returning, I think somehow Anakin and Palpatine need to show up somehow.

 

They will have a cameo on Lukes FG coffee cup

 

Product placement is getting out of control.

 

No panic, I believe it is said in one of the TLJ novels that the caretakers keep the green saber in one of the huts.

 

With a time jump most likely, Rey will already have built her lightsaber between movies. There is no reason for her to to go to the island again. She alraedy has what she needs (as per Yoda). She will be a master level Jedi by the time the movie opens. The way I understand the Force now is if Kylo will get more powerful she will to to balance it and vice versa. The question is will she have students or not by the time the movie opens.

 

How will Ep. IX begin? Obviously after the crawl we'll get an outer space scene of some sort

I think you're probably right about the time jump and Rey's lightsaber. However just because she'll have rebuilt her lightsaber doesn't mean that she won't end up in possession of Luke's green lightsaber at some point.

I could very easily see her losing her new lightsaber in the middle of a battle and she's on the ropes and then...pop! R2 shoots Luke's green lightsaber out of his head and Rey catches it. Or...Luke catches it. Force Ghost Luke somehow temporarily takes physical form and joins the battle with lightsaber in hand. Turns out Rey took the green saber on a return trip to Ahch-To!

Yoda's comment about Rey having everything she needs might be specific to what she needs to learn about the Force not what she needs to know about herself and her family. If I were Rey and I knew of a magical mirror that could possibly give me a look into my past, a past I can't totally remember I think I'd go back there. I wouldn't take the word of a known liar even if his words did feel true. Not everything that feels true is true. If I was Rey I'd want a second opinion. That's why she goes back to Ahch-To, the mirror. Plus it was rumored that Rian Johnson shot a scene of Rey, Luke, Kylo, and the KoR on Ahch-To.

Sounds like we have different philosophies on how the Force works. I don't think the Force keeps Kylo and Rey at the same power level. If Kylo's power level goes up or down Rey's power level isn't going to go up or down in tandem. This isn't a Tomax and Xamot situation. I think Kylo's inner conflict might've been holding his powers back in the first two films and with Kylo possibly more on the dark side than ever before I think we'll see that he's now at a higher power level, probably more powerful than Rey.

I could see Rey and Kylo facing off early in the film and in that encounter Rey, (and the audience) will learn that Kylo is way more powerful now. Perhaps this will set up a situation where Rey spends part of the movie convinced that Kylo's too powerful for her to defeat. Cue Ghost Luke appearing and telling Rey something that could help her get one up on Kylo.

 

What's the emotional arc these characters are going to have in Ep. IX and which characters will be emotionally connected to each other? I'm guessing it will be Rey and Finn, Rey and Luke, and Rey and Kylo. Also Hux and Kylo.

I know that footage of Carrie is going to be used in Ep. IX but it's hard for me to imagine that they'll be able to splice it together to give Leia and Kylo and emotional scene together. That said I'd think that Ep. IX should have a moment where Kylo and Leia connect emotionally. Maybe there's a way to do that without Leia being on screen that much? I don't know.

There might also be a emotional moment between Poe and Leia.

If I'm being honest though I think it could be challenging to make a lot of these emotional connections/arc's really land. To me we haven't seen these characters form a bond as close as Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, R2 and 3PO bonded in the OT so I'm not as invested in wondering where their stories lead in Ep. IX.

Simply put I don' know what I want from these characters. They haven't pushed a will they or won't they story with Rey and Finn so I'm not going into Ep. IX with bated breath hoping that these two crazy kids finally get together. Am I supposed to be hoping they do get together? Am I supposed to be cool with them being just friends? At this point I don't have strong feelings either way. Is there even enough time to give Rey and Finn a romantic relationship subplot or would it feel shoehorned in?

Don't get me wrong I don't think that Rey and Finn need to be romantically linked but I do think they should have an emotional arc in Ep. IX...but for the life of me I can't picture what that would be. Maybe they'll give us a quasi-love triangle between Finn, Rey, and Kylo where Finn rightly or wrongly suspects Rey has the hots for Kylo? What would be the point of that? I guess it creates a bit of soapy drama? So then we get Finn acting like jerky jealous friend and then we have Rey being all, "that's crazy that Finn thinks I could like somebody like Kylo Ren...but maybe I do...?" But then eventually Rey figures out that she definitely doesn't like Kylo and she patches things up with Finn. Man this sounds like some seriously bad CW drivel. I'm not saying that my lack of imagination means that Rey and Finn won't get at satisfying story. I'm just saying I can't picture what it'll be. Anybody have any suggestions?

I actually think there's been more emotional groundwork set up with another couple in the ST, Hux and Kylo. From the beginning we've known that there is tension between these two. They do have a will they or won't they story thought it's a will they or won't they turn on each other. They're rivals in competition to please the Supreme Leader Snoke. Now that Kylo has taken control we can look forward to seeing how Hux is going to deal with being Kylo subordinate. As I've mentioned elsewhere I think we're going to see Hux betraying Kylo and Kylo discovering that at some point. These two characters have a story together and I am looking forward to seeing where it leads.

What other interpersonal stories are there? Rey and Luke. Hate or or love it Rey being Luke's kid would obviously give these two characters a personal story arc together. If they really aren't related though then what is going to be their story together? I guess Luke will help her on her journey to become a Jedi? That's more of a master/student relationship though. How will they expand that to something more personal? Again this is my lack of imagination. I'm curious to know how Rey Rando and Luke could have a shared story that is satisfying to watch.

There's of course the Rey and Kylo emotional connection they could play with too though again I can't get a read on what direction they'll take. Rey already tried to save him once. While I think Kylo will return to the light I can't picture what part Rey is going to play in that and how it would be different than what she offered in TLJ. Maybe it'll be forgiveness...but why does Rey have to be the one to give Kylo that if Rey's backstory doesn't have anything to with Kylo?

I'm going to stop myself here. I'll end this by saying that what I love most about stories are the emotional connections and journeys that characters experience along the way so naturally that's what I'm looking forward to seeing in Ep. IX. The problem is that I don't know that there has been a strong enough foundation to build those journeys on.

 

I called it!

https://makingstarwars.net/2019/02/what-is-star-wars-episode-ixs-macguffin/

Okay actually I didn't really call it but somewhere on one of these threads I made the bold prediction that in Ep. IX the FO and the Resistance would be racing to find a MacGuffin. How could I have predicted something like that? I'm just that good.

 

The Macguffin is ... Anakin Skywalker.


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No, it’s an Egg MacGuffin.