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Discussion Episode IX Story Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - IX: SA' started by Darth Formidious, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015
    i really don't want to stoke the lineage nonsense further, but if the force-flashback was a real representation of Rey's parentage, she was dropped off on Jakku and a spaceship flies away.

    Nothing kylo says matches with that scene. A "pauper's grave" in the context of Jakku would literally mean her parents died at niima outpost and the locals buried them in the sand out back.

    IMO, kylo is just going with the obvious, Jakku = junk traders, despair = drunks, thus died in a desert.

    Why would rey's parent's sell her to unkar plutt for booze money, fly away, come back and die in a jakuu outpost. ??
     
  2. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I'm hoping we get to actually see Kylo committing the academy massacre in this film.

    We have briefly seen Luke see the aftermath and also the very beginning when Ben attacked him, but nothing between.

    Lukes Academy falling apart has a lot of importance in this era that it should be shown on screen via flashback.

    In the process getting to see the students who are killed (and those who Ben took) If any other students besides Ben had a lightsaber, it's a chance to see more saber duels other then Kylo vs Rey.

    Also becoming a call back to RoTS. Both final films in their trilogy's showing a skywalker before donning a mask, committing betrayal with a blue light saber.
     
  3. stoteh

    stoteh Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 26, 2015
    Or perhaps Jedha (or what’s left of it).
     
  4. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Let’s be fair, I wrote a paragraph for each and was talking strictly about their past.

    For Rey it boiled down to, as Maz said, her future lies ahead of her, not behind, we know all we need to.

    For Kylo it was the only thing we need, at most, is the moment Snoke turned him.

    I literally said the rest of Kylo’s history is better told in a book.

    Vader required a full trilogy for his backstory to show his turn. No one complained that Luke didn’t get the same. It wasn’t needed.

    And to be honest, Rey is the hero, Kylo is the villain, but I’d say the ST is both of their story.
     
  5. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    This is just dismissive. Maz's line is not justification for zero story about Rey. Even abandonment is worth exploring for Rey, or any protagonist. Maz said her belonging, what she seeks, is ahead of her. That does not mean that plot points and emotional beats can't arise that Rey needs to resolve before she can settle into her belonging that is ahead of her. The happy ending is supposed to be at the end. It doesn't come 2/3 of the way through the story.

    You literally said:
    and
    We don't even have, as others have pointed out, an unambiguous answer to what happened to Rey. Rey herself must be hella confused because she remembered in TFA her parents flying off Jakku, and then she remembered in TLJ that her parents are dead on Jakku. Those don't match.

    Why is facing Rey's past automatically irrelevant when Kylo's isn't? If this is both of their story (which I don't agree that it is, I think it is clearly intended to be Rey's first and foremost, primarily, by a long shot), Rey's past is by default automatically at least as important as Kylo's. Even with alcoholic parents, Rey can still be curious about them as a way of reconciling her abandonment. Where did they come from? What caused them to be losers? Where are they buried? Did they have a village or other family? Were they victims of circumstance?

    Either the past matters or it doesn't. If it matters because it impacted who Kylo is today, it also matters because it impacted who Rey is today. OR, the story is that the past is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is the choices the characters make today. I am very sure, however, that Rey and Kylo's narrative themes cannot coherently be literal opposites. I can't be expected to both care about the details of Kylo's past and not care about anything in Rey's. I'm actually personally invested in Rey's story 10x more than Kylo's, but more important than that is just in terms of normal storytelling, this is a hero's journey, and Rey is the hero. Rey needs the primary emotional arc. She can't just start IX ready to put the past behind her and fulfill her destiny as the hero. Where does she go from there? I guess she just keeps putting the past behind her and does heroic stuff. The end. That's not the makings of a good story.
     
    godisawesome likes this.
  6. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Now that I’ve read from MSW that it’s probably not the Vong—the biggest embarrassment of the EU IMHO—I feel relieved.

    Pre Baanite Sith-like internal warring could be interesting. Jason talks about Sith Rule of 2, but that’s impossible as we have Knights. So again, it sounds more like Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, which is very pre-Bane, except Naga and Ludo were rivals, not master and apprentice.

    Unless it’s Snoke’s former apprentice who has made a comeback. But I got the impression the former apprentice was killed by Snoke who no longer needed him before or at the time of Ben, or it’s Ben who killed him. Or the apprentice is distant past.
     
    dlbates likes this.
  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    What if it's Palpatine.
     
  8. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2002
    At what point have I said I want zero story for Rey?! All I've said is we don't need to go over her parents again. Her arc of abandonment and finding belonging/a new family doesn't need to keep looking back when we've already been given the answer to that question by Rey herself.

    If they've found a new angle that follows naturally from what we've already been told and makes us look at the previous films in a new light I will happily say I was wrong. I just feel her story is better served by moving forwards at this point.

    I did. I also singled out
    as the only moment I felt was needed. And said
    For both characters I think it's more important now to move forwards than keep looking back. After two movies I feel we have enough of the broad strokes of both their back stories. There's one extra moment of Kylo's that I feel might be worth seeing, that's all. It's not a judgement to say whose past is the most important. Rey dealing with her new acceptance of who her parents were is understandable and part of moving forwards, but that doesn't require getting more history/details on her family.
     
  9. thejediscavenger

    thejediscavenger Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2019
    I'm going to repost my thoughts here, since this is where we are discussing IX's story and I didn't want to go OT in the rumors thread. I think Snoke got his prediction wrong in TFA, like how he was wrong about who Kylo would kill in TLJ.

    "The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise."

    The last Jedi is Rey and BB-8 led the Resistance to her (Rian said the last Jedi would change hands, so though we had Luke at first and he did return too, it was always going to be Rey in the end and Kylo. Last Jedi and last Skywalker). Kylo meeting her made him become Ben again for a moment and Rey said he was their last hope. Kylo (a Skywalker) returning to the light would cause the Jedi to rise.
     
    RokurGepta and ChrisLyne like this.
  10. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015
    There does seem to be some kind of FO presence in "the beyond" though. Like, they rebuilt an entire imperial fleet in the unknown region to then return. The new stormtroopers seem to suggest a FO faction in the beyond? Was snoke and the FO we've seen basically the beach head / first wave group?

    There's got to be planets with people, shipyards etc etc somewhere in the "beyond" that still has a government or a leader right? Was the entire FO on their ships like some kind of "space dwellers"?
     
  11. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    You are wise.

    I doubt they’re a surprise for Ren. Maybe they’re the Old Guard who don’t like Newbs that Hux directly orders in the movies so far. I’m talking here about mere mortals. I believe the Ren to be dark side adepts


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Charlie07 likes this.
  12. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Can someone clarify something for me? Jason said he's pretty sure the KOR return from the Beyond, with a threat. Is the threat from the Beyond the KOR or something different? People are talking as though they are two different things, but the impression I got was that the threat from the Beyond that forces Kylo and Rey to join forces is the KOR.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  13. thejediscavenger

    thejediscavenger Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2019
    It seems a threat from the Beyond will create a teaming of Kylo and Rey and in another sentence MSW adds that the KOR have returned form the Beyond. That makes it sound like they are the threat.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  14. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015
    I think you're asking the million dollar question mate. As of right now, both options are open. It can easily be read as both. The KoR could be the threat that returns and the stormtroopers are there with the KoR to foment rebellion against Renporer.

    OR

    tthe KoR are now under the control of a new threat that has come from the beyond that pushes kylo and rey together.

    We need more info. However one must ask what turns the KoR against the "master of the KoR" if they weren't present at the fight? All kylo has said is that "the girl killed snoke".

    Why do both Kylo and Rey need the "controversial macguffin" to counter the threat of the KoR if it's only them?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  15. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Maybe it’s Maybelline.
     
  16. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015

    I've also started thinking about new actors for IX. after we got confirmation of Richard E Grant playing a FO officer, my mind has switched to Matt Smith.


    https://variety.com/2018/film/news/star-wars-episode-ix-matt-smith-1202886507/

    Variety never actually went into detail, but their headline says he's playing a "key role". I'm wondering if the KoR come back with Matt Smith's character as their new leader?

    If the KoR bring back a "new baddie" whom else from the new castings has been attached to a "key role"?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  17. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Star Wars Television star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    The KOR returning in 9 with a newer threat seems very plausible if not right on the point. Add that to the idea that Hux may figure out it was Kylo who killed Snoke and possibly leading a coup to unseat him from power, you have a very interesting arc for Kylo in this movie.

    Perhaps Kylo learns that his father was right and Snoke was using him as a pawn all along? Makes sense, Snoke convinces Kylo to take out his Uncles new generation of Jedi, perhaps the only group that could stand a chance against whatever is coming from the Beyond. Kylo figures this out as well and realizes that the Galaxy is up the creek, so he perhaps wants to ally with the remaining New Republic/Resistance folks to fight this threat.

    Then Hux and his fanatics want no part of that and over throw him or basically chase him out of town.
     
    ChrisLyne likes this.
  18. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    I don’t know. Because spoilers have been so slow I haven’t really followed other information—casting, locations, etc. So because of that and we’re sometimes at each other’s throats, I took a break from SW here and spend time on other things we might agree on or not take the disagreements as seriously, such as DC, comics, politics, Trek, etc. Also, I don’t to be too hyped—if possible—in December. So we got superhero movies and Disney live action and anime to hold me over.

    Now that we’ve got spoilers my interest is piqued. If there is a new rival to Ren, I still don’t see why he and Rey would team up. The Resistance was decimated and in 1 year I wonder how much they could have rebuilt. Yes, Ren wants total domination, so in addition to the FO military he may enlist private armies and planetary defense forces who swear loyalty, as the FO military is nowhere near the size of the Imperial military.

    Maybe if it were the Vong—and I hope it’s not—we could see the Resistance and FO team up. But if it’s #2 KOR, maybe the leader before Kylo took over or one of Kylo’s juniors from the Jedi Academy, or the previous apprentice of Snoke, who gets the KOR and the FO military stationed in the UR, how could and why would the Resistance help? Not to mention Rey hasn’t had a lot of time in 1 year to train Broom Boy and other Force Sensitives she may have found.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Well the new MSW report today (see other threads) has ruled out the KoR as villains. So it's looking like the "threat from the beyond" could be a third faction or a single "uber" threat. Essentially the "threat" bringing Kylo and Rey together, and challenging kylo still stands, but KoR are categorically ruled out as villains.
     
  20. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    If not the KOR, maybe it’s the Other Apprentice. Or maybe it’s the Dark Presence that Palpatine sensed. Maybe Palpatine didn’t since Snoke, but a different Dark Presence that Snoke also sensed and motivated him to go to the UR. This Dark Presence is even stronger than Palpatine, Snoke, and Ren and he takes over the FO out there. Or maybe this is Snoke’s version of Operation Cinder. The last possibility could lead to Rey and Ren joining so the GFFA isn’t destroyed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
    Charlie07 likes this.
  21. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Could very well be, hence the need now for MORE spoilers ;) We progressed slightly today to a better understanding of the driving force for the "real" plot, but still too many holes to fill.

    As i mentioned in other threads, VERY curious that the new MSW report today has also taken an interest in what role Matt Smith is playing. If he has a key role as variety reported, it could be this threat to kylo. Matt Smith and Kerri Russell are the two we have absolutely have zero info about now.

    Slow and steady, we will crack this chestnut :)
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  22. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks for the info. Except for knowing Hamill, Fisher, and Williams are in it, I don’t know much about who the new actors are and what they’re doing. Still hoping Christensen is a well kept secret.

    Another possibility is Darth Jar Jar. Or maybe there really is a Darth Smurf.
     
  23. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Thanks for the info. Except for knowing Hamill, Fisher, and Williams are in it, I don’t know much about who the new actors are and what they’re doing. Still hoping Christensen is a well kept secret.

    Another possibility is Darth Jar Jar. Or maybe there really is a Darth Smurf.
     
  24. King Maul

    King Maul Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2016
    I'm rooting for this threat to be the dark presence Palpatine sensed . A dark side entity that threatens to destroy everything . Kinda like Abeloth.

    I think that Snoke was the servant of this being and now the KOR serves it aswell. This being has some grand plan that Kylo and Rey are screwing up , so now it takes the matter into it's own hands.

    This would also be easy to explain . Just say that this being was behind everything and that Snoke was just a puppet.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  25. Darth Geezy

    Darth Geezy Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Perhaps the threat from beyond is the KOR along with the "real" Snoke.