ST Episode IX Title Discussion: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

The whole EP1-9 is the Skywalker Saga so getting the name Skywalker in the title was very fitting especially for the last one.

 

Well, I cannot find an official Rise Of The Skywalker thread, so I am going to write my thoughts about this film in this thread, it seems to be the most appropriate thread.

I just travelled back to the US from Europe on Saturday, and they had all three sequels on the flight. I had watched TFA three times before, TLJ twice, and Rise Of The Skywalker only once, in the theaters, so I decided to watch it fully knowing that it's not a movie that I will enjoy.

My main problem with this movie (and all sequels) is that it does not resonate with me emotionally at ANY level, and I strongly believe that it's really challenging for these movies to resonate with anyone the same way that the 6 classic George Lucas Star Wars movies have. I would go as far as to say that we are talking about an entirely different genre at this point. When George has said numerous times that the Star Wars saga is like space opera, and when he characterized his prequels as ancient Greek tragedy, he couldn't have been more accurate. The emotional depth of the characters and their evolution, the mystical themes of power, religion and fate, the constant fight between good and eveil, could never have been portrayed as well as George presented them to us in my opinion. So the task of rewiring my brain and realizing that the ST is essentially a set of sci-fi action blockbusters with average humor and a conscious attempt to copy and re-imagine the original 6 movies, is quite difficult.

But at the end of the day, I did enjoy some things in this movie, after shutting down my brain.

• We see Luke Skywalker for the first time in this trilogy, when he appears to Rey as a Force Ghost. This is the best scene in the entirety of the ST, and one that would have certainly made the cut if I chose to film and edit this trilogy.
• Babu Frik is the best side character of the ST. Hey heeeey.
• Exegol is visually stunning, and while the thousands of cultists on the stand are ridiculous, the setting in its entirety is amazing.
• I actually like Kajimi and the sub plot there. It's not great, but it would fit perfectly fine in a better movie.
• The Kylo Ren - Rey duel on the ruins of the Death Star is probably my favorite lightsaber duel in the ST.
• Some of the Expanded Universe concepts worked here quite well. Palpatine's masterplan to essentially transfer his force essence (soul?) into Rey's body and continue to live reminds me of Darth Zannah and what Bane wanted to do with her body. I think it's a cool idea, and COULD have been explored with someone else, not Palpatine.
• Contrary to what most people think, I think that the Skywalker name adoption by Rey could have potentially worked. I don't think the execution was great, but the intentions behind showing that our heritage doesn't necessarily determine our fate are noble.
• Passana was cool. And I didn't mind the Ochi subplot. Probably the only interesting subplot in the entire ST.
• Rey's gold lightsaber is sweet. Great artistic choice.
• Daisy Ridley's acting is the best part of this movie. She obliterates Boyega and Isaac, and she is even better than Driver, who clearly did not want to be there anymore.
• Ben Solo appearing finally at the end and disposing of the Knights Of Ren was glorious, even if it was too little too late.

Unfortunately, even though the movie does a lot of little things well, it ultimately fails in all the big strokes in my opinion.

• Rey being a Palpatine is such a poor narrative choice, that not even SW parodies would have done. I can't believe that someone actually approved of that idea. I don't even want to know whose idea it was in the first place.
• Palpatine returning from the dead is a huge mistake anyway, and NOT one of the cool things we saw in the Expanded Universe. It is quite obvious that this choice was made in order for this movie to not fail commercially. And I actually think that it worked. I myself got the chills when I heard Palpatine's voice in the trailer for this movie. I can't imagine this movie making more than $600 million if Palpatine wasn't there.
• Light speed skipping.... cringe. Please.
• A thousand Star Destroyers that are also mini Death Stars? No. Just no. Horrible idea.
• Force Dyad. Ugh.
• Leia's death was such a bad scene. I know they had their limitations because of Fisher's death, but this one did not carry ANY emotional gravitas.
• The Death Star ruins basically still almost intact as rooms and locations within the Death Star after it was blown to a trillion pieces? Oooooof. No.

Anyway, I know this is not the most popular opinion in these forums (though it is VERY popular in other online spaces), the script and the concept art of Duel Of The Fates by Colin Trevorrow was supremely superior, and would have made an infinitely better movie than this convoluted mess. I think JJ Abrams did the best that he could considering (A) the who knows how many directions and limitations that Kathleen Kennedy had for him and (B) the atrocity that came before TROS, but somehow Colin Trevorrow would have done so much better. He had a much more interesting main villain, he had much more iconic locations and plot elements, and he would have had a more interesting cinematography for sure.

Oh well. It is what it is. Consider this post as a response to a hypothetical "What Do You Think Of TROS 5 years later?" thread.

 

Both Colin Trevorrow and JJ Abrams are colossal hacks of the highest order. So my question is: Why was the conclusion of one of the greatest film sagas of all time entrusted to these towering mediocrities?

 

I think it was the right decision to bring back Palpatine. I think he was the right characters for it and for the reasons they likely did it. Because this film was trying to be a big final to all the 9 movies and they wanted it to be big and trying to do end game with it. And Palpatine isn't just the emporer from OT anymore. Which even then they brought him back in the books. But the PT made him more. He became the devil of Star Wars. He isn't a character just there to redeem Vader anymore. He is very much his own character and biggest villain the franchise has ever created.

But then i say that as someone who can look past ROTJ and not see it as ruining anything by bringing the character back. I don't feel it changes anything.

 

Palpatine had nothing to do with the story of TFA or TLJ. Him suddenly appearing as the big villain in TROS was, therefore, dumb. And, it seemed, desperate. One of the worst decisions of many a bad decision with the ST.

 

Throwaway Snokes in the background were an appropriate touch at least.

 

It's amusing how the prequel trilogy is now being considered part of "classic" Star Wars. While I love the prequels, they have an interesting emotional duality - sometimes coming across as detached and clinical, other times veering into melodrama. In contrast, I find the sequel trilogy to be genuinely emotionally resonant, though that might just me.

 

All of GL's movies have been classic Star Wars for many years. I'm sure there are those who consider the ST classic Star Wars as well, but it is very different from the other trilogies. You can tell that those two were made by the same person and that this one has a different feel.
The ST seems more modern, it strives for a more realistic feel, it takes itself more seriously, there's a much heavier emphasis on emotional performances, it's less dorky/quirky...

It feels very much like its creators were following a recipe - and had too much reverence - for what they consider good Star Wars rather than being natural Star Wars storytellers. There's not much true heart in it, very little true personality. No bold, original vision. They didn't do this because they had something important to say, they did it because it was their job.
That's not to say the trilogy is devoid of substance. It has its moments. They're just few and far between.

You might say it's not the best song in the world, just a tribute.

 

I remember a time when it was not seen that way. Many feeling the PT was very different to the OT in every way possible. People just putting it down to Lucas losing his way.

All that happened was people just become accustomed to the PT eras existance under Lucas.

 

This is your usual, nonsensical "The same exact thing happened last time in everybody's minds" argument. When are you going to realize that it's not true?
I have always felt that way. Always. As have many others. And why? Because it's just plain true. Regardless of how different you think his trilogies are, they both have a Lucas air about them. His personality shines through. It would be very weird if it didn't, since he made them and made them 100% his way. They came from his heart and mind.

 

Because it is true. People were complaining for a long time that the PT was not like the OT. Why do you think DIsney make episode 7 like the OT? It wasn't because people see the 2 trilogies as very similar. The PT was tonally different. the depended on a lot of CGI which really made the galaxy feel different. There are way more politics and that become a complaint. Certain changes made were seen as crapping on the OT for some reason. Lucas was in a very different places with the PT and many noticed this and wanted their nostalgic version of Star Wars.

 

The OT seemed to only turn "classic" once the PT came around. Before the PT, ROTJ was "the movie that we must not name", along with the Ewoks and C-3PO.

Enter PT: and the entire OT is a classic.

ANH was lightning in a bottle and the anchor of the OT. It would seem ESB is the contender, but I've come across people who consider that along the same quality of ROTJ. Just as ROTS was the anchor of the PT, it wasn't till recently that TPM and AOTC have been included into that.

I just need my Gungan Jar-Jar to finally chill with the Ewoks and C-3PO in the Star Wars Acceptance camp

 

Lol. The OT was considered a classic far before the PT was made. What kind of insane revisionism is this?

 

I remember ROTJ, was disliked by critics

 

The prequels and the originals all go into melodramatic moments, because that's how George Lucas filmed them. Complicated family relationships, heightened drama laser sword fights in a universe where super powerful lasers exist, romantic relationships in the middle of war and chaos, and the fate of the galaxy on the hands of a few heroes and villains. There is absolutely nothing detached and clinical in the prequels in my opinion, as they are by far the most emotional trilogy to me.

Well, people have been wrong about many things, this was one of them.

Some people, maybe. Being human means being able to accept the reality after the fire and smoke are gone, so for a lot of people it took a long time before they realized that the OT and the PT are done with the same approach to the story and the same love for that universe, regardless of their (not so many) differences in style. For some of us, the PT and the OT have always felt 6 parts of the same movie.

The prequels literally have the highest amount of practical effects between all trilogies. Adding a lot of CGI to it doesn't make them tonally different. Especially when the CGI was extremely good for its time. Lucas was really not in a very different place with the PT.... if anything, he made it closer to how he would have wanted to make the OT as well, when he didn't have the technology yet. And I can only imagine how amazing his 6 movies would have been if somehow he got to make them in 2025, with the technology we have now.

The point is that his vision is larger and more important than anything that has to do with tone or colors or a meek 5% of scenes that focus on politics. The common factor in all 6 movies is the constant internal and external battle between good and evil, and how humans can improve their lives and the way they treat everyone else. It's a philosophy of life, sprinkled with cool action scenes, unique vistas and a few political messages about our society, and I am all up for it.

Anyway, off topic. I think that this whole "but mom, the prequels..." excuse that somehow creeps into many ST topics to justify why and how the ST is not bad, needs to eventually go away. All of this because I wrote "the 6 classic SW movies", as if it's not a true sentence.

 

The PT is objectively very different than the OT on a number of levels, including in terms of tone, style, and narrative. As intended. George had no intention of repeating himself. Not least as the PT is a tragedy and the OT is a triumph. But also because he wanted to present a different era in a visually and tonally very distinct way (I mean, we’re following Jedi characters at a time when they are numerous and institutionally powerful - why would George want that to fit tonally with a film trilogy that followed some scrappy rebels wherein only one becomes a Jedi - the only existing one - in the last film?) I don’t understand why this fact needs to be refuted. It’s to George’s credit that the PT is very different than the OT on many levels. Like any artist worth their salt, he didn’t endlessly repeat himself to please his original fans. He did what he wanted, and that meant something very different than the OT.

JJ then had the artistically mediocre and arguably cowardly approach of just trying to imitate the OT.

Yes, the PT is very different than the OT on a number of important levels. And that’s great.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said. But you are talking about tone and style for the most part, and I am talking about approach. The approach and the focus to the story and the main narrative was the same. With the same love for the same messages and themes. Yes, there are obviously many differences between them, but they are all parts of the same cohesive saga.

 

You're talking about tone, I'm talking about personality. These are different things. Regardless of tone, GL's personality shines through in his films. You can tell that they all came from the same person. And you can clearly sense that that person was not involved in the ST. It is vastly different from the first two trilogies.

 

@Master Jedi Fixxxer @Bor Mullet

I think you both raise valid points.

While both the Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy emerge from George Lucas's singular creative vision, they differ markedly in their execution. Heck, they weren't even really created in the same manner. The fundamental storytelling DNA remains consistent across all six films, yet the prequels adopt a distinctly different visual and tonal approach. Despite my appreciation for both trilogies, I believe the prequels might have resonated more strongly with audiences had they maintained closer aesthetic continuity with the original films. The tonal shift, particularly in the prequels' more stylized cinematic language, created a sense of disconnection for many viewers – even though I personally value both trilogies for their unique contributions to the larger Star Wars narrative.

 

I dunno. I like the PT and its tone and look, but it feels the most like it was made by totally other person / creative team to me.

 

Well thats the thing, if the PT had been made by someone else there would be people saying this is why the PT is so different and terrible. For example Lucas didn't explain the force in the OT but this new hypothetical person came in and created midichlorians. But we know the PT is Lucas. We have accepted that the PT is a more evolved George Lucas whose storytelling does feel a bit different. We ain't doing Lucas's version of Flash gordon anymore, we are doing a more sophisticated style of storytelling based on noir, political drama and Romeo and juliet. But for better or for worse, we know its him and we have accepted it.

 

I agree. In fact, as it was, people trashed George Lucas due to the Prequels and said he was washed up, a hack, and all sorts of vile crap. Hell, there are even documentaries about this. It's one thing to piss and moan in these forums or social media....the backlash Lucas received was something else....something that went beyond.

 

Still a bad title, one of the many disappointing aspects of a ST lacking in genuine emotion and dramatic gravitas across the board. I prefer the six classic films.

 

I prefer to call it The Rise of Swillwater.