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Lit Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread (Tags Required for rumors/spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I read that scene as him just having forgotten it in all the tumult.
     
  2. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    That doesn't really help. "Guy who can't remember important things that happened to him, personally, in a crisis situation" isn't going to look good in front of the new boss.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
  3. Supreme Leader Woke

    Supreme Leader Woke Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 29, 2017
    Well, when you consider that Minister of Education is really just doublespeak for Propaganda Minister, the civilian side of the Rebel Alliance takes on a more militaristic vibe.
     
  4. nancipants

    nancipants Jedi Knight star 2

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    Nov 16, 2017
    No, really? :eek:

    People in real life don’t treat other people’s children like their own and vice versa?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  5. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    They do, but often they have no right to do so. Poe is Leia's subordinate officer, not her son. She shouldn't treat him like he is. One of the reasons Poe acts against Holdo as much as he does is because he's used to Leia letting him have his way and being exempt from certain rules. This is poor behavior for a General. Holdo was much more by-the-book. Except for her blatant defiance of uniform regulations of course.

    Paige liked tasers? Guess it runs in the family.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  6. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Double Post
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  7. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    That is weird when you think about it. I mean can you imagine if it were male characters going around slapping female characters and beating them up without warning? Kind of seems like the opposite of what we're going for with the whole empowering women thing. Depicting female "heroes" as needlessly moody and violent doesn't exactly do a lot for the cause . . .
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    As I said in another area of the boards—it seems like the type of writing done to make fun of or caricature feminism by someone who doesn’t like it. It’s not feminist writing at all.
     
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  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, about the only defence I can see for it is that these characters are not supposed to be representative their gender in that way.

    Which would be all well and good except, it makes a big deal that Rey's the lead and Holdo's in charge as an Admiral and their gender matters, it does then tend to lead in that direction.

    But this is very much TLJ wanting to have its cake and eat it.

    Yeah, I find it hilarious that TLJ is getting this spin as being a 'feminist' movie, I'm really not seeing it. TFA has better claim to that and it did a far better version of Rey for me.
     
  10. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    TLJ was full of in-your-face, ham-fisted attempts at "feminism" that were just **** and annoying. Everything Holdo did and was. Almost as though the plan was to have a strong, sensible woman showing superiority over hot-headed and brash male (Poe) and as a result saving the day. What we ended up with was Holdo being irrational and vindictive and nearly ending up ****ing everything up (seemingly) just for the sake of wanting to belittle Poe. As Anakinsfan said it was like a caricature of what people fear feminism to be, and this film was supporting that.

    I really just wish that we could go to a more sensible place with film making in general, stop trying to make gender and race issues such a big part of everything. It's not like it's going to go back to the 70s with 90% White male actors in every film, which it seems like people are afraid of. So many people in the industry, and fans pressuring them, are forcing these issues that don't need to be forced and it's just divisive and harmful.
     
  11. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    excuse me while i feel around for my eyes on the floor, as they have rolled out of my head
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  12. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    I was thinking of making some massive response to all of this, but you covered everything better than I ever could with just one hyperlink.
     
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  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I don't mind if Holdo or Leia or Rey or everyone basically all the time screwed up in Last Jedi, it's a legitimate theme of the movie. So much so that they have Yoda spell it out. People can/do screw up constantly in the film, kind of a big point and it's really Luke's Crait appearance and Rey lifting rocks is when they have some genuine success.
     
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  14. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    I don't really see the relevance
     
  15. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    The relevance is that what you said is factually wrong
     
  16. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
  17. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Which part of what I said? It's really not clear
     
  18. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    Your point about the percentages of diversity in films being much better now. There is progress sure, but it's still most certainly uneven. What your saying people are afraid of is legitimately still an active problem, as the hyperlink shows
     
  19. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Eh, tbh it doesn't really seem that much far off being representative to the general population demographics, and I'd be more interested in seeing the results limited to larger scale, more mainstream and higher exposure films. I'd be willing to bet minorities would have higher relative proportions in bigger budget films, just from my own limited experience.

    White people and black people definitely don't have anything to complain about in that regard. The biggest issues in aiming for equal representation that I can see are:
    1 - Asian representation. I get that Asian countries have their own studios and markets that are almost exclusively Asian actors and crew but there are much more in the Western world than representation they get in larger Hollywood films. Compared with other minorities, eg. African Americans who get far more relative exposure, particularly in large roles.
    2 - directors. There are minorities (and women) in leading roles, supporting roles etc. all over the place but it still seems that a disproportionate number of directors all seem to be just white guys? Not sure how to "fix" that problem, maybe 90% of qualified directors in Hollywood are all white guys and going out of your way to hire minorities would just reduce quality of the films, I don't know, but it's definitely an imbalance.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It doesn’t solve the issue just to have women and minorities in the film; Finn suffered from a portrayal as every stereotype of a black man (the clumsy sanitation worker, the comic relief), just as Rey suffered from a portrayal as a terrible traditional female stereotype (“good girl saves bad boy”).
     
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  21. Senator Wan

    Senator Wan Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Aug 13, 2017
    If Holdo was replaced with Ackbar and still just as stern and by-the-book in scolding Poe, no one would be upset about it. But since it’s a new character who looks a little out of place in comparison to her company and she’s talking down to fan favourite Poe Dameron, somehow there’s a cause for uproar.


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  22. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Yes that's exactly the point. You could say the same about the portrayal of a lot of characters though, not just the minorities. General Hux turned into bumbling comic relief, Luke Skywalker's character inexplicably dragged through the dirt, Snoke brought in and ended up doing nothing (don't even know if Snoke is a minority I guess he is lol). Dodgy characterisation isn't limited to minorities in the new films. Rey and Finn probably 2 of the better ones.

    Yeah probably. I still would have been annoyed by the logic-defying decision making and setting-breaking hyperdrive attack (have they explained that one yet?) but I doubt there'd have been as much uproar.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  23. mnjedi

    mnjedi Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 4, 2012
    I don't know if it actually counts as a diversity issue, but it bugs me that we are into our fourth Disney Star Wars movie and Cewbacca is still the only alien main character in any of them. Especially when you look at Rebels and see Hera, Ashoka, Zeb, and Thrawn all playing major roles.
     
  24. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Regarding the hyperdrive attack, I think that was a spur of the moment decision. The original plan was for everyone to evacuate on the cloaked transports, and then Holdo flies around, fooling the First Order into thinking the Raddus is on its last legs. Then when the ship dies down, the First Order finishes it off, missing the fact that only one person is aboard.

    That plan changed when the First Order spotted the transports, and Holdo came up with that solution to try to save as many Resistance members as she could.
     
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  25. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    The article in question WAS looking at larger scale films though. They narrowed it down to the top 100 highest grossing fiction films of the year. Black people do have something to complain about in that regard. In 2016 out of the top 100 highest grossing films, only 14 had leads or co leads from minority groups. That is something worth complaining about.

    I do agree on the two points you bring up though, Asian American representation and diversity behind the camera are major issues. It is certainly not a matter of 90% of qualified directors being white dudes though, http://assets.uscannenberg.org/docs/inclusion-in-the-directors-chair-2007-2017.pdf
    One of the best examples of this is the date on page 3. Female directors are more likely to only get to make one film.
     
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