Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.
That's a clever fix Ghost, I quite like it, but it still shouldn't be needed.
Sigh. Why did you have to reference that horrible line from LOTF.
Because it was so nuts in LOTF and Kylo is nuts enough to really, really buy it and I will gleefully love any and all inflicting of total misery upon the bastard psychopath.
Fortunately for Kylo Ren, unlike Caedus, he doesn't wear a cape! (yet?)
A cape is inevitable. It is his destiny.
If he's not wearing cape now, what is he wearing?
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Somebody on Facebook says that in Leia's space scene, you can see Han's ghost reflected in her eyes, and is convinced that Han being one with the Force is what helped guide Leia. Did anyone else see that? I wasn't looking for it.
While I can't *argue* anyone's feelings about Luke's characterization around. I do feel obliged to mention:
There was plenty to indicate in the OT that Luke was on a semi-self destructing path, and it wasn't entirely his fault! He had the burdens of the Jedi, a lifetime of trauma and murdered family figures, was quick tempered/impulsive at times, occasionally used the darkside, and finally had a corrupted nephew who he was unable to help in a moment of personal weakness. Mark Hamill SOLD that "You know what? SCREW IT," attitude Luke had.
Luke was given a nearly impossible task from the onset, and failed. So what?
His last act is to protect his family and embrace his destiny as an icon, a legend, a source of inspiration. The entire last scene with the kids was there to demonstrate that Luke's life was bigger than it really was, even with 30 years of adventuring! The fact that he gave up for 5, to me, is simply a storytelling choice and not any big judgement on Luke, the person. He found his peace, and made a difference.
It could even be argued, from Yoda's comments in TLJ, that he set Luke up for failure! Which is a crappy thing to do to anyone.
Luke still probably got further than anyone expected and it took the concerted action of a dark-side demon in the form of Snoke and a nephew who was evil incarnate to knock it off track!
You think Rey is going to fail, too?
If yes, then what is the point of all this?
If no, then what is the point of all this? If you're going to restore the Jedi, anyway, why on earth wouldn't you do it in the direct sequels to RETURN OF THE JEDI?
Why are we treading water in this facile-OT purgatory? Why are wasting all this time setting up Rey to restore the Jedi when we'd already had three movies setting up Luke to restore the Jedi? I get that Rey needs to be the swashbuckling Jedi hero of this trilogy and that's all fine and dandy, but why does she need to literally be OT-Luke come again?!
It's just so weird. I appreciate that a lot of you like it, and that's okay, but why don't you think it's weird!?
Why do people think things?
That's really not that difficult. The Falcon played him like a damn fiddle minutes earlier.
And it was the worst after watching Kylo come into his own by playing Rey like a fiddle to seize power. His character was all over the place. Get him some Zoloft or whatever the latest drug is for Bipolar disorder. Bipolar not being manic and depressed, but measured and impulsive.
Maybe it's the mood swings from the steroids?
I agree that retreading rebuilding the Jedi again is so dull.
They should just time jump 9 by 2 decades so that the film opens with an army of fully trained Jedi, make up the actors to be a little older (or like in the new X-Men films not even bother, make up a new rule that super strong Force sensitives age slower--ironically the reverse of what we saw with Kenobi and Luke) with Rey leading an army of Jedi and Kylo leading an army of Ren Knights or whatever and just fighting it out.
Using various stories from the last two years I was able to de-fang a hell of a lot of TFA's more dubious moves, but annihilating the restored Jedi off-screen? I had nothin' on that one. And this one does double down on it, quite, quite majorly. It is the major weakness of the ST.
I suspect, given how they've changed the way the Force works, they'll keep it as a X-Men style 'awakening', following which you know how to use it, little training needed - which sounds to me like a complete disaster, but it's not as if they've left themselves much in the way of other cards to play.
It is something Ep 9 needs to address, as Ep 7 said the Jedi are needed for 'balance', ep 8 sez they're not, so what is the truth here? Having a couple of Luke's Jedi students survive wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Because Lucas didn't make them in 1986, essentially. The sequels necessarily have to have moved Luke on beyond the era of seeking out new Jedi because they have to be set thirty years later to match the actors' ages. And the story was always going to be a young Jedi coming to Luke for training, and honestly that's a story better told without an established Jedi Order to back them up. It all really seems to have spun out of the corner Lucasfilm is being forced to write themselves out of in a post-Prequels world where Lucas only got around to making sequels thirty years on.
Maybe everyone would be happier if LucasFilm started this accelerated filmmaking in the late 80s.
Yeah, they botched the Jedi for sure.
I think it would have worked out nicely with some tweaks. Instead of the Jedi being gone, and technically never really having been at all, they should have had Luke train one full group of knights prior to Ben's turn. That way, the group Ben wipes out are students and you have room for Luke's first group to be in hiding ala the Jedi Masters of KOTOR2. You *still* have Rey pretty much what she is, though maybe ahe was a youngling to at least give some context for why she can do what she does with the Force, Lor San Tekka could easily have been a Jedi himself that was hiding because of the blitzkrieg style of the First Order. Rey still needs to track down the missing Luke.
They could still use "oh woe is me" Luke in this set up. TLJ could largely be the same.
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It seems the Jedi were going to be wiped out no matter what going back to Lucas' early involvement with the "Jedi killer" that became Kylo Ren.
Then why would Luke be the last hope? Why would the Jedi hide instead of seeking him out? Why would Luke hide instead of seeking them out? All that plot would do is compound the questions that arose about Luke's disappearance. It'd also take something away from Rey's story if a bunch of Skywalker-class Jedi turned up out of the blue to help her out.
Personally, I think, much like the Time Lords, the Jedi are better when they're extinct.
That may well be their reasoning but it's ... pretty weak. Especially since TFA would work just as well if Luke wasn't "the last Jedi" but the sole Jedi Master, with there now being too few Jedi Knights to make a difference in the wake of Kylo's betrayal. Hell, Poe could have been one of them easily enough. Corran Horn, anyone?
Then TLJ plays out more or less as is.
We're not talking about a prequel numbers, here, or even NJO numbers.
Because until Rey shows up, he's the only guy who stands a chance against either Kylo or Snoke.
Like how he and Leia were considered the "last hope" in the face of Vader and Sidious despite there being two Jedi Masters around.
They'd need the map to find him.
See: The Force Awakens
Because he's a sad sack who hates what he allowed to happen and thinks the Jedi should end.
See: The Last Jedi
What if Luke was hunting down the Jedi to end them as the huge twist?
Luke hiding out waiting to die for the Jedi to end doesn't really work if he's not the last Jedi.
So The Empire Strikes Back
Hmm. Kylo is the first Sith in the movies to ascend to the top without looking like a 15th degree burn victim from head to toe. HIs scar was surgically altered to look cool. It's good to be the king.
Although this makes sense through the lens of TLJ, the larger saga would consider that going full ....... Stiller.