A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

I don't know... both in the months after TLJ and in the aftermath of the GoT finale, I seem to remember plenty of posts here in Lit as well as various thinkpieces online that didn't just claim that TLJ and/or GoT did subverting expectations "wrong," they actually questioned the value of that particular writer's tool. It steals the reward the viewer expects to gain for their investment in characters or story; it violates the conventions of genre; it's all only about "shock value"; etc etc. Not that I can find any examples of those posts or articles now, of course, so YMMV.

 

Yeah I've definitely seen a lot of people on reddit ridicule the notion of 'subverting expectations' in relation to TLJ and the last season of GoT, and not just that they did it badly, a lot of people seem to think that the issue is doing it at all. Ironically of course a lot of these people are the same ones that praised the early seasons of GoT for not going the way you thought they would... (Not defending GoT btw, but I thought the problems in the later seasons were more due to rushed pacing that stopped things from really making sense rather than necessarily the plot points themselves).

 

Both R1 and Solo do some things that I would classify as “subverting expectations.” Enfys Nest and her crew of marauders turning out to actually be the good guys was a pretty great twist. I have to agree with Jedi Ben that a lot of RJs stuff seems aimed as “gotcha” towards the audience more than anything else in a way that didn’t really gel with me.

As for GoT laters seasons, it’s problems run far deeper than “subverting expectations.”

 

I think Disney is done with the roman numerals so we won't be getting a 10-12 as that would imply a continuation of the Skywalker saga and 9 was "supposedly" the end of the Skywalker saga.

If they do decide to continue Rey, Finn, and Poe's story, I hope they start with "The New Order Chapter 1" or maybe they won't use a number at all, and just call it "The New Order" or something like that, something to indicate that this is a new story now and don't worry about what came before because we won't be when we're writing it.

 

Whatever title they go with, it won't be "the new order" - the phrase is too linked to utter villainy.

 

Didn't the prologue of the original Star Wars novel state that it was excerpted "From the First Saga, Journal of the Whills"? Maybe they'll expand on that. Star Wars: The Second Saga doesn't have a bad ring to it, though if individual films have episode numbers again that could get a little messy. "Star Wars: The Second Saga: Episode I: Rise of the New Bad Guys" will be challenging to fit on an action figure cardback, to say the least.

 

They could go work "Chapter One" instead of "Episode One."

Maybe they'll start subtitling the next saga "A Star Wars Saga."

IG: @jedisufism

 

I will remain genuinely befuddled that people are legit mad at the Luke milking the space cow bit, I think it's hilarious. What sells it for me (aside from Hamill's swig) is the look on Rey's face when she first sees the space cow and she's like "Oh, that's cute, hi there!" and it just falls into "holy heck, this is gross and weird" when Luke starts milking and drinking it.

 

What's the argument against it? I understand, even if I don't agree with, the general disapproval of Luke's characterization, but what's the deal with the milking? To me, it's just an element of mixture of the alien and the familiar, like the Mos Eisley cantina.

 

I don't now I just see some posts like "Luke milking space cow bad!" and that's about it, I think it's gold.

 

Part of it is the creature design, there's a "hurr, hurr, we've got away with boobs in SW" element. You want Luke milking a cow's udders? Off you go then.

 

Bringing this back from the dead only because one tiny little thing has come up from Pablo Hildalgo Star Wars Fascinating Facts but in the book it says....

Spoiler

In George Lucas's script Luke was going to die at the End of Episode 8 as well and that was decided back in 2012

It also states that Lucas's inspiration for Luke in the Sequel Trilogy was Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now

 

Very interesting.

I really hope they can leak the Lucas plot treatments for the Sequel Trilogy, what they sold to Disney. Not the first scripts that Lucas helped with, as an advisor, before leaving. I think they should know people would pay good money for it, even if the pages leaked online they'd still make a huge profit.

 

I also want Herbert's Dune 7 notes.

 

It would be really cool if they did something like Dark Horse's "The Star Wars", which was a what-if based on George's original SW script. Imagine doing this for his sequel trilogy script or notes. (Not that I think Disney would actually go for this)

 

If the Lucas Treatments haven't leaked while Collin's Duel of Fates Script has....then I doubt that Lucas scripts are coming anytime soon if they could they would have by now.

If anything it means his scripts are very incomplete and or being recycled for other things

 

I'd rather Lucas's plot treatments become the well-known alternative to the Sequel Trilogy we got, not just CT's script.

There's probably just higher security for it, fewer people in the know.

 

Luke's exit in Last Jedi is so fantastic I'm a little disappointed he really only does the Force ghost Pep Talk bit in Episode IX cuz "See you around, kid." promised so much more. But he is part of all the Jedi at the end as well so that counts.

Anyway, Luke joining the Force seems like something that would happen in just about any version of the sequel trilogy whoever wrote it, just really depends on where it would land.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it other forms but honestly I think The Sequels and NuCanon in general are honestly more true to Lucas's vision, concepts and theme than most fan give people credit for.

 

I suspect the originally spitballed 80s version of VII-IX wouldn't have looked that much different if they'd happened.

Rey would have been "the Other"/Luke's sister, of course, and Snoke would have just been the not-yet-been-killed Palpatine at the head of his not-yet-overthrown-Empire.

 

Considering the Emperor was gonna be the big bad in 9 I wouldn't be surprised.

Granted i don't think George went into his Ep 7 by the time of 2012 thinking Palpatine was gonna be the big bad again...Although I would not put it past him to bring Palpatine back.

 

I think Kennedy is quoted as saying it was "always the plan" to bring Palpatine back and I'm not one of those folks who think she's lying all the time and take her at her word. Really who's "always the plan" was it. I do think Lucas would have gone Resurrected Palpatine, even despite his random "Emperor was never cloned" comments years ago.