A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

True....Palpatine only appeared in a Hologram in DOTF script .

To be fair we could take KK's comments as "We wanted Palpatine to appear in some form" in 9 and by the time they got to Ep 9 JJ just went all in.

Especially considering later drafts in DOTF scripts would introduce a Villain for Kylo and Rey to come against anyway.

JJ took that idea and decided "Let's just make it Palpatine" and bada bing.

 

I heard "always the plan" was more open than him being physically alive, and that they consider hologram and literal phantom appearances.

 

I think you also have to consider that Lucasfilm wasn't particularly keen on the direction of Trevorrow's script and he was dropped from the production.

Notnsaying there's a correlation.

 

I've talked to some folks who've done marathon watching in Chronological order of Ep 1-9 and have said they've had better experiences with the ST on the whole. Of course that person was pretty positive about TLJ from the get-go.

But that would be interesting...

I am curious how the meta-story of the Entire Saga forms when those who ONLY know Ep 1-9 become the dominate force in Fandom and sorta just see this as one cohesive thing.

 

I say this as one of the very people I’m going to talk about, but people take Star Wars WAY too seriously. No matter which era you start in, the trend seems to be that we all become WAY obsessed, love all the content that was out when we discovered Star Wars, then hate whatever comes in and steps on that contents toes. To me the ST was messy, sloppy, and barely fit in as canon.

but Star Wars canon is a mess. It’s all pretty ridiculous and doesn’t really operate on any form of real world logic. I know I certainly was ridiculous in my reactions to the new movies. I’m sure kids will really enjoy the new content.

 

The next generation will be just fine. When they grow up and gain a voice the chatter around the sequels will be more positive.

 

It's only a matter of time before the ST gets its own version of The Clone Wars to do all the heavy lifting and character arcs the films forgot to do. Just like the PT. And that show will probably end up just as amazing as the Clone Wars.

 

I'm not convinced of that.

Disney's total confidence while doing the ST and collapse of afterwards feels akin to how DR were during NJO and after.

It was thought NJO would get more explored due to the success of TUF, but it never happened.

 

This is exactly right. The generation of fans that will grow up seeing the ST as "just part of the saga" will be no more bothered by the messy, disjointed nature of the ST than we are by the similarly messy and disjointed nature of the OT, or the PT. Star Wars films have two audiences - the kids for whom whatever the current movies or shows or whatever are "their" Star Wars, and the existing fans who always want new movies to be continuations of "their" Star Wars. Disney was canny enough to focus on the first audience, and trilogies to come will do so as well. That's the generational nature of the saga, and I think it behooves us as long time fans to remember that a little more than we do.

 

People underestimate the long term impact the ST is gonna have when the new generation of Star Wars fans finally take over...and hopefully they'll take over soon, although to be fair they kinda are right now.

And that's the generation Disney was smart enough to grab when the iron was hot.

They know that if they get them nice and young their theirs forever...It's how the company has survived for decades...It's kinda scary...Brilliant...But scary.

Thank goodness too....And hopefully that day will come sooner rather than later.

Oh defiantly...It might not happen right away but I think it's foolish to think it won't one day.

And that's why kids are smarter than adults.

 

We'll get a Filoni led post-ST era animated show where Ahsoka shows up to mentor Rey and then, sooner or later, Disney will reach out to take the big, beautiful, powerfully engloved and robotic hand of Darth Vader and simply remake the OT.



Tale as old as time.

 

I mean I wouldn't mind both things to be quite honest.

And we joke but never say never when it comes to Ashoka, Baby Yoda and Old Ezra being part of Rey's Jedi council.

 

I'm not joking at all.

 

Neither was I

 

The Prequels have been rehabilitated, I think, with time. I don’t doubt at all that the ST will as well.

 

Truth...and I don't think the ST has much work to do on that front. The Sequels are genuinely popular, people like the characters more or less and the small things like the acting, special effects etc etc are pretty good.

They don't have much a hill to climb

 

any viewings (or reading the novel) after TROS I basically mentally slot in Snoke as literally the mouthpiece for Palpatine, especially in TLJ. The comics have really leaned into the "puppet Snoke" notion. Him trying the same apprentice kills the interlooper to make them more loyal trick that he tried on Luke and Vader. the cave mirror scene to me in the context of TROS reads pretty much as Rey seeing her Dyaid in the Force with Kylo (just eventually boils down to two figures and then merging into one). I've said this before but I totally believe that making Sidious the mega mastermind behind the ST sheenagians works really well. And if one is irritated that he survived, hey, he cheated into a busted up clone. It was the dark side and the result unnatural. He told is way back in Episode III. So TROS Palpatine is basically his final grasp at immortality and it only sorta worked. So he's only sorta Palpatine, the real deal died on the Death Star. This is his twisted and unnatural cheat attempt.

 

@BigAl6ft6

I will say that the latest source books written by Pablo Hidalgo do indicate that Snoke DOES have free will...So Snoke is more a proxy.

I mean it's semantics but Snoke is still his own person, Palpatine is just orchestrating events.

Just wanted to point that out

 

Didn't the TLJ sourcebook say Ach-To had twin suns? Because I think Luke's twin sun exit works way better as his Force vision.

 

Yes and the novelization I think did too.

 

That scene seems to be related to a certain PT metaphor:

Spoiler

In TLJ, those clouds go away. Unlike those PT clouds, they move. Luke is being hit by a sudden realization:

Luke gave those dice to Leia. I think he wanted to force skype her and Kylo. But Leia left them lying there, and Kylo and Rey were connected one last time. It passed through Luke, and he felt what that meant. That's why those twin suns were real, and also a vision, and also a memory (Luke and the dice disappeared simultaneously, I think)

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure of it myself. For one thing, the cultural landscape is very different now than in the early 2000s, and Star Wars squandered its massive return to the film stage and quickly found itself overshadowed by the Marvel Cinematic Universe. As well, I do think the nature of these films is a problem for that. The handling of women and minorities is something that's going to age really badly and is kinda inescapable as it overwhelms the narrative of the films. The finale of the trilogy, marketed as the end of the saga, was overshadowed by a puppet on a TV show and the finale to another long-running finale movie that was much better received at the box office and reviews. I just don't think it's there for this series. And that disappoints me, because I think it had a lot of potential at the outset but that they unfortunately shot themselves in the foot with their tunnel vision.